2021-2022 Duke

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Interview tracker listed first II from someone with 513/3.86 -- anyone else get an II? (no completion date info - might be fake?)
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II here yesterday! Complete around 7/17.
 
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genghis99 said:
Relevant secondary evaluation info for those interested:

8/5/2018: DukeMed had 1100 completed secondaries
8/5/2021: DukeMed had 2150 completed secondaries

-They focus more on experiences and essays, with an emphasis on "investment in others"
-Each application is read by 3 raters, and all 3 have to agree to interview for the applicant to be interviewed
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Here is a transcript version of the interview. At ~7 min is when they start talking about secondaries and the review process specific to Duke. Deep Dive Into Duke Medical: An Interview With Dr. Linton Yee, Associate Dean of Admissions [Episode 432]
 
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genghis99 said:
Relevant secondary evaluation info for those interested:

8/5/2018: DukeMed had 1100 completed secondaries
8/5/2021: DukeMed had 2150 completed secondaries

-They focus more on experiences and essays, with an emphasis on "investment in others"
-Each application is read by 3 raters, and all 3 have to agree to interview for the applicant to be interviewed
Click to expand...
I'm surprised by two things here. First, the increase (obviously) but also the seemingly low primary to secondary conversion rate, considering most schools receive about half their secondaries within 2 weeks of sending them out (LizzyM notes that at her school, they received 25% of total applications on the first day itself).
 
msummer said:
I'm surprised by two things here. First, the increase (obviously) but also the seemingly low primary to secondary conversion rate, considering most schools receive about half their secondaries within 2 weeks of sending them out (LizzyM notes that at her school, they received 25% of total applications on the first day itself).
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I haven’t done Duke’s secondary yet. It’s a handful lol so maybe a lot of other applicants don’t finish it either
 
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Confusedandamused said:
I haven’t done Duke’s secondary yet. It’s a handful lol so maybe a lot of other applicants don’t finish it either
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If you look at this link, only 4354/7622 (57%) of people who applied with AMCAS in 2020 actually ended up filling out the secondary.

2024 MD Admissions Statistics | Duke University School of Medicine

Interviewees came from 128 universities and 46 different states, while the 2024 entering class came from 32 states, representing 50 different universities. To find out more about some of our students, check out our Students Liaison page.
medschool.duke.edu medschool.duke.edu
 
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msummer said:
I'm surprised by two things here. First, the increase (obviously) but also the seemingly low primary to secondary conversion rate, considering most schools receive about half their secondaries within 2 weeks of sending them out (LizzyM notes that at her school, they received 25% of total applications on the first day itself).
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The lack of secondary competition likely has to do with the sheer number of long and original essays they ask for and that they tend to be released at the very end of the secondary timeline. So at that point a lot of people are burnt out as well.
 
TheGranolaKing said:
If you look at this link, only 4354/7622 (57%) of people who applied with AMCAS in 2020 actually ended up filling out the secondary.

2024 MD Admissions Statistics | Duke University School of Medicine

Interviewees came from 128 universities and 46 different states, while the 2024 entering class came from 32 states, representing 50 different universities. To find out more about some of our students, check out our Students Liaison page.
medschool.duke.edu medschool.duke.edu
Click to expand...
I wish more schools released this type of information. Vanderbilt has something similar happen, which motivated me to actually go finish that secondary.
 
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TheGranolaKing said:
If you look at this link, only 4354/7622 (57%) of people who applied with AMCAS in 2020 actually ended up filling out the secondary.

2024 MD Admissions Statistics | Duke University School of Medicine

Interviewees came from 128 universities and 46 different states, while the 2024 entering class came from 32 states, representing 50 different universities. To find out more about some of our students, check out our Students Liaison page.
medschool.duke.edu medschool.duke.edu
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also wait, what in the world is going on with Duke's gender ratios. I thought most schools try to keep it near 50-50 when they can...
Women make up 49% of the application pool, but 64% of the admits?
 
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msummer said:
also wait, what in the world is going on with Duke's gender ratios. I thought most schools try to keep it near 50-50 when they can...
Women make up 49% of the application pool, but 64% of the admits?
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Bruh the class is 1/3 male.
 
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skg99 said:
Bruh the class is 1/3 male.
Click to expand...
Are you agreeing with me that there's surprisingly fewer men or do you think that's completely normal? I'm a little confused.
 
msummer said:
Are you agreeing with me that there's surprisingly fewer men or do you think that's completely normal? I'm a little confused.
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99% sure they're agreeing with you lol
 
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skg99 said:
What's worrying is that the offer ratio was similar; it's on purpose. The odds ratio of getting in is 2:1 for female applicants over males.
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Duke was already a long shot for me. Seeing this just convinced me it's not worth the time to fill out the secondary
 
skg99 said:
What's worrying is that the offer ratio was similar; it's on purpose. The odds ratio of getting in is 2:1 for female applicants over males.
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It's very strange, but it's likely due to more female applicants' writing (and perhaps accomplishments) aligning with duke's mission. I find it very unlikely that duke has an internal goal to favor female applicants this much (as medicine already has more women entering than men at this point, so what purpose would that even serve).

I base this theory on the following: Duke says that it weighs the secondary application to a high degree, seeming much more than that of comparable medical schools. Women in general seem to have better writing skills than men (SAT reading/writing scores, MCAT CARS, my personal experience, etc.), so it's possible that they just generally had superior essays as an aggregate. You'll notice the female-male proportion changed little between interview and acceptance, where writing is no longer a factor.
 
So, being female means you are 18% more likely to be offered an interview at Duke, assuming applicants are nearly equal between genders...
 
burrito-consumer said:
So, being female means you are 18% more likely to be offered an interview at Duke, assuming applicants are nearly equal between genders...
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Nah it's an odds ratio so (58/100) / (39/100) equaling 1.53 so 53% more likely to be offered an interview.
 
skg99 said:
Nah it's an odds ratio so (58/100) / (39/100) equaling 1.53 so 53% more likely to be offered an interview.
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I did male interviews divided by male applicants (13.1%), the same for females (15.5%), and then divided the female ratio over male ratio. 53% more female interviews, but an individual female is 18% more likely to receive an interview offer.
 
burrito-consumer said:
I did male interviews divided by male applicants (13.1%), the same for females (15.5%), and then divided the female ratio over male ratio. 53% more female interviews, but an individual female is 18% more likely to receive an interview offer.
Click to expand...
Okay yeah I need to jump in here... because your stats aren't making sense. It is well known that Duke has a higher proportion of females to males in their class, but it is not that horrendous. I also think the wording here is quite confusing and is giving people the wrong impressions, so I calculated it and found this:

Female applicant chance at interview = 18.28%
Male applicant chance at interview = 13.13%
Other applicant chance at interview = 9.17%

Female applicant chance at acceptance post II= 42.32%
Male applicant chance at acceptance post II= 38.06%
Other applicant chance at acceptance post II= 27.05%

Female applicant chance at acceptance = 7.74%
Male applicant chance at acceptance = 5.00%
Other applicant chance at acceptance = 2.48%


I used these stats from their website to calculate the above:
4354 Apps (49% F, 46% M, 5% Other)
2133 F Apps/2003 M Apps/218 Other Apps

673 Interviews (58% F, 39% M, 3% Other)
390 F Interviews/263 M Interviews/20 Other Interviews

They don’t say accepted numbers here, but based on other data I found for the past three years, they accept ~40.20% of people post II - so based on this...

270.546 Accepted (61% F, 37% M, 2% Other)
165.03 F Accepted/100.10 M Accepted/5.41 Other Accepted
 
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babybluee said:
Okay yeah I need to jump in here... because your stats aren't making sense. It is well known that Duke has a higher proportion of females to males in their class, but it is not that horrendous. I also think the wording here is quite confusing and is giving people the wrong impressions, so I calculated it and found this:

Female applicant chance at interview = 18.28%
Male applicant chance at interview = 13.13%
Other applicant chance at interview = 9.17%

Female applicant chance at acceptance post II= 42.32%
Male applicant chance at acceptance post II= 38.06%
Other applicant chance at acceptance post II= 27.05%

Female applicant chance at acceptance = 7.74%
Male applicant chance at acceptance = 5.00%
Other applicant chance at acceptance = 2.48%


I used these stats from their website to calculate the above:
4354 Apps (49% F, 46% M, 5% Other)
2133 F Apps/2003 M Apps/218 Other Apps

673 Interviews (58% F, 39% M, 3% Other)
390 F Interviews/263 M Interviews/20 Other Interviews

They don’t say accepted numbers here, but based on other data I found for the past three years, they accept ~40.20% of people post II - so based on this...

270.546 Accepted (61% F, 37% M, 2% Other)
165.03 F Accepted/100.10 M Accepted/5.41 Other Accepted
Click to expand...
I mean, I think its a pretty substantial difference, but I can see why that depends on point of view. You could say that women have 2.5% greater chance of acceptance or a 50% greater chance of acceptance, depending both on what you believe and what point you're trying to make.
I appreciate the time you took to sort out the math though.
 
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genghis99 said:
Relevant secondary evaluation info for those interested:

8/5/2018: DukeMed had 1100 completed secondaries
8/5/2021: DukeMed had 2150 completed secondaries

-They focus more on experiences and essays, with an emphasis on "investment in others"
-Each application is read by 3 raters, and all 3 have to agree to interview for the applicant to be interviewed
Click to expand...
yikes not the unanimous jury vote
 
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msummer said:
Are you agreeing with me that there's surprisingly fewer men or do you think that's completely normal? I'm a little confused.
Click to expand...
"I can't believe that 66% of the class is female"
"No, 33% of the class is male..."

Reminds me of this classic forum meme
 
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Will the portal tell you when your application was finished being screened by the 3 readers?
 
I never received a completion email, but my portal does say my app is completed. Is this something I need to contact them for as a bug, or is the email just a formality?
 
throwaway01564 said:
I never received a completion email, but my portal does say my app is completed. Is this something I need to contact them for as a bug, or is the email just a formality?
Click to expand...
I never received a completion email either, but on my portal it says "Your application is now being reviewed by a set of independent screeners on our admissions committee." so i think we're good?
 
GDTBATH16 said:
Minority women have an even better chance?
Click to expand...
Underrepresented minorities almost always have a better chance, so in this case the URM women have an even greater chance (assuming the gender imbalance is an institutional goal, which I think is unlikely)
 
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msummer said:
Underrepresented minorities always have a better chance, so in this case the women are even better off
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At the risk of starting something I am not really prepared to finish, I don't think this is really true. To me, as a fellow applicant and not an adcom, it appears that URMs receive extra leeway with respect to certain metrics (MCAT and GPA), where they might have been subject to systemic disadvantages. They still need great applications to break through, just like everyone else. If they just always had a better chance, they'd no longer be under represented, would they?
 
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KnightDoc said:
At the risk of starting something I am not really prepared to finish, I don't think this is really true. To me, as a fellow applicant and not an adcom, it appears that URMs receive extra leeway with respect to certain metrics (MCAT and GPA), where they might have been subject to systemic disadvantages. They still need great applications to break through, just like everyone else. If they just always had a better chance, they'd no longer be under represented, would they?
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I'm not really sure where you're disagreeing. Assuming all other metrics are equal, URMs almost always have a better chance. This is simply a fact. You acknowledge as much when you mention "extra leeway". There are a plethora of reasons why this is the case (systemic disadvantages, patient-provider relationships, etc.) and I'm not trying to disparage any of them, just state the outcome: give almost all URMs a boost in the admissions process. Their applications still have to meet a certain baseline, of course. I never said they'll take in absolutely anyone as long as they're URM.

That last statement is false. There are far fewer URMs applying. That's why they're underrepresented. You can have a better chance and still be under represented if there are fewer of you to begin with. And of course, that is why the URM boost exists.
 
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msummer said:
I'm not really sure where you're disagreeing. Assuming all other metrics are equal, URMs almost always have a better chance. This is simply a fact. You acknowledge as much when you mention "extra leeway". There are a plethora of reasons why this is the case (systemic disadvantages, patient-provider relationships, etc.) and I'm not trying to disparage any of them, just state the outcome: give almost all URMs a boost in the admissions process. Their applications still have to meet a certain baseline, of course. I never said they'll take in absolutely anyone as long as they're URM.

That last statement is false. There are far fewer URMs applying. That's why they're underrepresented. You can have a better chance and still be under represented if there are fewer of you to begin with. And of course, that is why the URM boost exists.
Click to expand...
As I said, I'm not really prepared to see this debate through to its conclusion. Where I am disagreeing is with the statement that they always have a better chance. They don't. If they don't have great ECs, they don't have a better chance. If they don't have strong evidence of their motivation, they don't have a better chance. If they don't have a compelling story, they don't have a better chance.

People who grew up with hovering parents, great schools and great support systems, and then produce great stats on a med school application, get hung up on the fact that other applicants, who did not have those advantages and consequently do not achieve the same level of academic success but nevertheless have other very valuable attributes to offer, and who are every bit as smart, deserving and motivated as they are, achieve application success where they don't.

This becomes distilled to a "better chance." Not true. I don't have the stats, and neither do you, because they are not published. But just anecdotally, based on the number of URMs I personally know who are reapplicants, I'll bet they don't have a "better chance" as measured by their admit rate, even with their lower relative application numbers.

You seem to be implying that "better chance" just means lower stats. The problem is, that doesn't take into account the seriously reduced resources many of them had access to, often for up to 16 years of formal education, that contributed to those stats. It also doesn't take into account that their stats are also often more than adequate to produce fine physicians. Assuming this is the case, what sort of value should an adcom place on the "excess" stats that other applicants possess?

Also, how do you control for their "better" service to under served communities when deciding they have a "better chance"? Maybe, assuming for a minute that some schools don't care exclusively about stats, they actually have "better" applications! :)

Maybe I was more prepared to debate this than I realized! :cool:
 
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KnightDoc said:
As I said, I'm not really prepared to see this debate through to its conclusion. Where I am disagreeing is with the statement that they always have a better chance. They don't. If they don't have great ECs, they don't have a better chance. If they don't have strong evidence of their motivation, they don't have a better chance. If they don't have a compelling story, they don't have a better chance.

People who grew up with hovering parents, great schools and great support systems, and then produce great stats on a med school application, get hung up on the fact that other applicants, who did not have those advantages and consequently do not achieve the same level of academic success but nevertheless have other very valuable attributes to offer, and who are every bit as smart, deserving and motivated as they are, achieve application success where they don't.

This becomes distilled to a "better chance." Not true. I don't have the stats, and neither do you, because they are not published. But just anecdotally, based on the number of URMs I personally know who are reapplicants, I'll bet they don't have a "better chance" as measured by their admit rate, even with their lower relative application numbers.

You seem to be implying that "better chance" just means lower stats. The problem is, that doesn't take into account the seriously reduced resources many of them had access to, often for up to 16 years of formal education, that contributed to those stats. It also doesn't take into account that their stats are also often more than adequate to produce fine physicians. Assuming this is the case, what sort of value should an adcom place on the "excess" stats that other applicants possess?

Also, how do you control for their "better" service to under served communities when deciding they have a "better chance"? Maybe, assuming for a minute that some schools don't care exclusively about stats, they actually have "better" applications! :)

Maybe I was more prepared to debate this than I realized! :cool:
Click to expand...
I honestly just don't think you're acknowledging some facts about URMs in medical school admissions. Yes, I do believe that URMs almost always have a better chance compared to a non-URM under the same financial or familial circumstances. This is ingrained in the admissions process itself, and is widely documented, as the LCME has diversity accreditation standards. The WARS calculator, I think, does a rather good job with it: no matter what your other experiences, stats, or family situations are, you get a boost for being URM. Yes, I understand that the WARS number scheme is not exactly how med school admissions works, but its widely thought to be a good estimate.

I'm not sure why you brought up the "hovering parents" example. Some URMs, including a close friend of mine, had exactly that. He will still get (and is getting) a URM boost on top of that, which is something we often joke about. Meanwhile, I have ORM friends in university that grew up in very poor neighborhoods and with seriously reduced resources. Their peers who are URMs in those same circumstances will receive additional consideration for being URM. Medical schools make targeted efforts to recruit URMs for a variety of very good reasons, but at the end of the day, these do translate into a boost for almost every URM applicant in comparable circumstances to other applicants.

Do you simply disagree that medical schools have any special procedures in place for URMs seeking admission? In that case, we can just disagree, and that's fine. This thread is Duke-specific anyway, and this conversation has side-tracked away from Duke at this point.
 
msummer said:
I honestly just don't think you're acknowledging some facts about URMs in medical school admissions. Yes, I do believe that URMs almost always have a better chance compared to a non-URM under the same financial or familial circumstances. This is ingrained in the admissions process itself, and is widely documented, as the LCME has diversity accreditation standards. The WARS calculator, I think, does a rather good job with it: no matter what your other experiences, stats, or family situations are, you get a boost for being URM. Yes, I understand that the WARS number scheme is not exactly how med school admissions works, but its widely thought to be a good estimate.

I'm not sure why you brought up the "hovering parents" example. Some URMs, including a close friend of mine, had exactly that. He will still get (and is getting) a URM boost on top of that, which is something we often joke about. Meanwhile, I have ORM friends in university that grew up in very poor neighborhoods and with seriously reduced resources. Their peers who are URMs in those same circumstances will receive additional consideration for being URM. Medical schools make targeted efforts to recruit URMs for a variety of very good reasons, but at the end of the day, these do translate into a boost for almost every URM applicant in comparable circumstances to other applicants.

Do you simply disagree that medical schools have any special procedures in place for URMs seeking admission? In that case, we can just disagree, and that's fine. This thread is Duke-specific anyway, and this conversation has side-tracked away from Duke at this point.
Click to expand...
Agreed about veering off topic, but, since it really does apply to all schools, it's not totally irrelevant, and this just so happens to be the thread where it came up!

Schools make a concerted effort to attract URMs to address a shortage. They also make an effort to make accommodations for low SES applicants who didn't have the resources other applicants had to facilitate academic achievement, as evidenced by GPA and MCAT scores.

All low SES ethnic and racial groups are impacted by this, but URMs disproportionately so. As a result, all groups receive a boost, but URMs disproportionately so. Wealthy URMs who had access to everything growing up do receive a benefit due to the need to attract more URMs, but, they are far and few between.

I brought up hovering parents because they have a huge impact on the academic achievement of their children, and we should be able to agree on which groups tend to have them and which ones don't.

I disagree that URMs with crappy applications are subject to "special procedures." I believe that there is an allowance for URMs with lower than typical, but still adequate stats, to help adcoms address a need for more URM doctors. I don't think this helps them at all if the rest of their applications aren't great.

I also think this only bothers people who think stats should be the "be all, end all" because it's what they had been told for years, and because they spent years putting a lot of time and effort into excelling in this area. They are now disoriented over "holistic reviews" elevating anything over their excellent stats, and this causes them to think that anyone benefitting from such a review has a "better chance," rather than simply acknowledging they might have a "better application" under the new, holistic standards for review.
 
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People forget what I said. No need for this debate.
 
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KnightDoc said:
Agreed about veering off topic, but, since it really does apply to all schools, it's not totally irrelevant, and this just so happens to be the thread where it came up!

Schools make a concerted effort to attract URMs to address a shortage. They also make an effort to make accommodations for low SES applicants who didn't have the resources other applicants had to facilitate academic achievement, as evidenced by GPA and MCAT scores.

All low SES ethnic and racial groups are impacted by this, but URMs disproportionately so. As a result, all groups receive a boost, but URMs disproportionately so. Wealthy URMs who had access to everything growing up do receive a benefit due to the need to attract more URMs, but, they are far and few between.

I brought up hovering parents because they have a huge impact on the academic achievement of their children, and we should be able to agree on which groups tend to have them and which ones don't.

I disagree that URMs with crappy applications are subject to "special procedures." I believe that there is an allowance for URMs with lower than typical, but still adequate stats, to help adcoms address a need for more URM doctors. I don't think this helps them at all if the rest of their applications aren't great.

I also think this only bothers people who think stats should be the "be all, end all" because it's what they had been told for years, and because they spent years putting a lot of time and effort into excelling in this area. They are now disoriented over "holistic reviews" elevating anything over their excellent stats, and this causes them to think that anyone benefitting from such a review has a "better chance," rather than simply acknowledging they might have a "better application" under the new, holistic standards for review.
Click to expand...
I think we're mostly in agreement.

"Schools make a concerted effort to attract URMs to address a shortage. They also make an effort to make accommodations for low SES applicants who didn't have the resources other applicants had to facilitate academic achievement, as evidenced by GPA and MCAT scores. All low SES ethnic and racial groups are impacted by this, but URMs disproportionately so. As a result, all groups receive a boost, but URMs disproportionately so."

^completely agreed

"I disagree that URMs with crappy applications are subject to "special procedures." I believe that there is an allowance for URMs with lower than typical, but still adequate stats, to help adcoms address a need for more URM doctors. I don't think this helps them at all if the rest of their applications aren't great."

^partially agreed. My view is close to this, except with one modification. "I don't think this helps them enough to get accepted if their applications aren't great." I do believe all URMs get a boost (special consideration), unlike your view. However, for many, this boost is not enough to give them an acceptance or even an interview. This perhaps can be interpreted as "I don't think this helps them at all if the rest of their applications aren't great."

Please don't interpret my comments on a boost as some massive scale buster that guarantees all URMs an acceptance even if they send an application in November with a 490 and a 3.0.
 
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msummer said:
I think we're mostly in agreement.

"Schools make a concerted effort to attract URMs to address a shortage. They also make an effort to make accommodations for low SES applicants who didn't have the resources other applicants had to facilitate academic achievement, as evidenced by GPA and MCAT scores. All low SES ethnic and racial groups are impacted by this, but URMs disproportionately so. As a result, all groups receive a boost, but URMs disproportionately so."

^completely agreed

"I disagree that URMs with crappy applications are subject to "special procedures." I believe that there is an allowance for URMs with lower than typical, but still adequate stats, to help adcoms address a need for more URM doctors. I don't think this helps them at all if the rest of their applications aren't great."

^partially agreed. My view is close to this, except with one modification. "I don't think this helps them enough to get accepted if their applications aren't great." I do believe all URMs get a boost (special consideration), unlike your view. However, for many, this boost is not enough to give them an acceptance or even an interview. This perhaps can be interpreted as "I don't think this helps them at all if the rest of their applications aren't great."

Please don't interpret my comments on a boost as some massive scale buster that guarantees all URMs an acceptance even if they send an application in November with a 490 and a 3.0.
Click to expand...
You're right, we do agree! :) If a boost isn't enough to generate an A, I don't consider it a boost at all, since it doesn't change a result.
 
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Is there anyone at Duke School of Medicine that I can talk to about the program? Would love to hear more information about it from an actual student.
 
MooseAndMe99 said:
Is there anyone at Duke School of Medicine that I can talk to about the program? Would love to hear more information about it from an actual student.
Click to expand...
Most schools don't provide such a high level of touch until they have established their interest in you through an II. If you cannot find someone on SDN, or maybe through your UG's premed advising office, all you can do is reach out to the admissions office and see if they are receptive to putting you in touch with someone. Otherwise, many schools seem to host opportunities to interact with current students post-II, and outside the interview itself. Good luck!!
 
MooseAndMe99 said:
Is there anyone at Duke School of Medicine that I can talk to about the program? Would love to hear more information about it from an actual student.
Click to expand...
Duke has a student liaison program for their medical school. They provides current student contacts and their email. There are several dozen of them you can reach out to with questions.

Connect with Current Students | Duke School of Medicine

LaMani Adkins (she/her/hers) Email: [email protected] Class Year: 2022 Hometown: Detroit, MI
medschool.duke.edu medschool.duke.edu
 
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II received about an hour ago! oos, complete 8/19
 
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+1 II! OOS, LM 76, Complete 7/27! only interviews dates available are for next week...not sure if i am ready!
 
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Hey everyone! I totally didn't expect to get an II on a weekend, but I had one come in about an hour and a half ago. I submitted my secondary on 7/31. LM 70.1. No days off I guess 😤
 
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