2011-2012 Washington University in St. Louis Application Thread

[medhopefuls2016]

Chronicidal, I actually wouldn't include any super-competitive specialty in that list. My understanding is that if you're shooting for ortho or ENT, you sort of take what you can get (i.e. if you match, that's great already). Matches I consider to be not very impressive are not in a super-competitive specialty AND not at a top 15 hospital. I count 24 in my list out of ~120 students who went to a residency program (took off the MPHs and such).

Emergency Medicine George Washington University
Emergency Medicine University of Illinois - St. Francis Medical Ctr
Emergency Medicine George Washington University
Emergency Medicine University of Chicago Medical Center
Family Medicine University of Colorado
Family Medicine Southwest Washington Medical Center
General Surgery Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center
General Surgery Case Western Reserve/University Hospitals
General Surgery University of Connecticut Health Center
Internal Medicine University of California, San Diego Medical Center
Internal Medicine Ohio State University Medical Center
Internal Medicine St. Louis University School of Medicine
Internal Medicine University of Illinois
Internal Medicine Mercy Hospital (St. Louis)
Internal Medicine Northwestern - McGaw Medical Center
Internal Medicine McGill University
Internal Medicine-Preliminary / Anesthesiology St. Mary's Health Center (St. Louis) / University of Utah
Internal Medicine-Preliminary / Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation Englewood Hospital / UMDNJ-New Jersey Medical School Prog
Internal Medicine-Primary New York University
Obstetrics and Gynecology University of Texas Southwestern Medical School
Pathology George Washington University
Pediatrics Northwestern - McGaw Medical Center Pediatrics University of Colorado
Pediatrics Baylor College of Medicine
Pediatrics University of North Carolina

Around 12 on this list are headed to big cities and/or exciting/comfortable places like Chicago, DC, and San Diego. The other 12 are staying in St. Louis (not BJH or Children's) or going to less desirable locations. Our exact count will probably vary b/c this is somewhat subjective. But only about 10% of the 120 who are going to a residency this year ended up... in hospitals that aren't top 15, not in super-competitive specialties, AND in less desirable locations.

EDIT: subtracted "Emergency Medicine University Hospital (Cincinnati)" from the list... sorry if I counted wrong afterward =P

It's pretty ballin' that this guy/gal matched back into McGill... (CaRMS works slightly differentily tham NRMP)

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[pkl2031]

Where are you getting the rankings from? I don't think there is an overall hospital ranking, is there? I would think that UChicago would have a pretty decent hospital.

 

[TheGreyWarden]

It's pretty ballin' that this guy/gal matched back into McGill... (CaRMS works slightly differentily tham NRMP)

Thanks! Another to subtract from my list of "bad" matches

Where are you getting the rankings from? I don't think there is an overall hospital ranking, is there? I would think that UChicago would have a pretty decent hospital.

I was using (my rough recollection of) the top hospitals according to USNWR. If I remember correctly, they don't rank UChicago's hospital that high. NW's hospital is actually ranked higher but still not top 15.

 

[chronicidal]

I was using (my rough recollection of) the top hospitals according to USNWR. If I remember correctly, they don't rank UChicago's hospital that high. NW's hospital is actually ranked higher but still not top 15.

Also, they don't have an adult level I trauma center. So as far as emergency medicine goes...

 

[pkl2031]

Also, they don't have an adult level I trauma center. So as far as emergency medicine goes...

Ah yes, you are right about that...

 

[Le Boudin]

So do I need a car here?

 

[lisi326]

So do I need a car here?

Depends on where you're gonna live. If you're in the Central West End, it's not completely necessary. There'll always be people willing to take you grocery shopping, and there's the Metro too. If you're not gonna live in the CWE, then yeah, you'll probably need one.

 

[Le Boudin]

Depends on where you're gonna live. If you're in the Central West End, it's not completely necessary. There'll always be people willing to take you grocery shopping, and there's the Metro too. If you're not gonna live in the CWE, then yeah, you'll probably need one.

I'd like to live close to school for convenience, but I bummed rides all thru high school, don't wanna do that again haha. How far away are these grocery stores? Or what about the nearest major shopping area/mall/strip mall?

I would like the freedom of having a car and being able to get away on a weekend or holiday. But if it's a BURDEN, then I won't. Is parking hard to find/expensive, or is theft a problem?

 

[lisi326]

I'd like to live close to school for convenience, but I bummed rides all thru high school, don't wanna do that again haha. How far away are these grocery stores? Or what about the nearest major shopping area/mall/strip mall?

I would like the freedom of having a car and being able to get away on a weekend or holiday. But if it's a BURDEN, then I won't. Is parking hard to find/expensive, or is theft a problem?

The closest grocery store is pretty close, a few minute drive, and the nearest shopping mall is ~10-15min down the highway, but it's also accessible by Metro.

I have a car and would hate not having it. Parking definitely isn't too hard to find in the CWE- most apartment buildings come with some (for an extra fee), and there's a few garages as well (~$55-100/mo depending on where). I haven't heard of any of my classmates' cars getting broken into.

 

[condor87]

I'll second what has been said above about having a car: it's a huge help. FWIW, you probably won't need to fill up more than once a month at most, but when you want to get around, St. Louis isn't a 'cab' city unless it's home from a bar downtown on the weekends.

For applicants and others not super-familiar with the St. Louis area, something to know is that St. Louis is a city filled with tons of neighborhoods, they just aren't all immediately connected to one another like in NYC. Thus, if you don't take initiative to explore, you'll really miss out on some really awesome stuff, even things right under your nose a few miles away (example = http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolmsted/2011/05/25/the-best-salami-in-the-country/ -- love this place).

 

[MDub1]

The claim:


The data on a sixth of the graduating class:


The explanation:


Hm.

I personally know the anesthesia guy and otolaryngology guy and they both put Utah as their #1 choice because they wanted to be closer to family. The guy doing ENT put them over UCLA, Harvard, and others. So this is not that crazy of an explanation.

 

[medhopefuls2016]

I honestly don't think that there is much of a correlation between the schools caliber and the match results. Having said that, top schools tend to recruit top students and, as a result, they have good matches.

Where we end up matching depend more on us really.

 

[EleanorAutumn]

I honestly don't think that there is much of a correlation between the schools caliber and the match results. Having said that, top schools tend to recruit top students and, as a result, they have good matches.

Where we end up matching depend more on us really.

+1 Well said.

I personally know a student who went to New York Medical College who did their neurology residency at Mayo Clinic and is now doing a fellowship at a Harvard-affiliated hospital. They did well on Step 1, had excellent extra-cur experiences, and excellent letters. People spend all this time comparing match lists and, quite frankly, I feel it is a waste of time. Match lists do not illuminate what the student's top choice, but only that they matched.

 

[TheGreyWarden]

Any idea what percentage of the class every year ends up taking a 5th year for research or a dual degree?

 

[pkl2031]

Any idea what percentage of the class every year ends up taking a 5th year for research or a dual degree?

I'd also like to know about fifth year research. Is there any kind of funding available if you don't want to do a dual degree / how competitive is the funding?

 

[lisi326]

Any idea what percentage of the class every year ends up taking a 5th year for research or a dual degree?

http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/Fact...statistics/Pages/DegreeProgramStatistics.aspx

I'd also like to know about fifth year research. Is there any kind of funding available if you don't want to do a dual degree / how competitive is the funding?

http://medadmissions.wustl.edu/unlimitedopp/studentresearch/Pages/StudentResearch.aspx

I would suggest emailing Dean Chung ([email protected]) if you need more specific answers. She's our research queen.

 

[chronicidal]

Any idea what percentage of the class every year ends up taking a 5th year for research or a dual degree?

Seems from the list above, in 2011, of the MDs, there were 17 PhDs, 1 MA/MSCI, 4 MA, 2 MSCI, 4 5th year research. That's a total of 28 in a class of 119 (24%) taking more than four years to graduate, but just 11% of the non-MSTPs. This seems low to me.

 

[TheGreyWarden]

Seems from the list above, in 2011, of the MDs, there were 17 PhDs, 1 MA/MSCI, 4 MA, 2 MSCI, 4 5th year research. That's a total of 28 in a class of 119 (24%) taking more than four years to graduate, but just 11% of the non-MSTPs. This seems low to me.

Looks pretty low to me too... especially compared to HST's 80%.

I think people taking extra time (research, PhD, etc.) tends to inflate match lists. The match list isn't strong just because everyone's taking extra time. It's strong despite that.

 

[lisi326]

Seems from the list above, in 2011, of the MDs, there were 17 PhDs, 1 MA/MSCI, 4 MA, 2 MSCI, 4 5th year research. That's a total of 28 in a class of 119 (24%) taking more than four years to graduate, but just 11% of the non-MSTPs. This seems low to me.

Looks pretty low to me too... especially compared to HST's 80%.

I think people taking extra time (research, PhD, etc.) tends to inflate match lists. The match list isn't strong just because everyone's taking extra time. It's strong despite that.

I don't quite understand the problem. If you want to take a year, take a year. There's plenty of opportunities and it's encouraged, if you want to do research and take the time. I've already got a mentor lined up and I'm a first year. If you don't want to do research, then don't take a year. Why does it matter what everyone else is doing?

 

[chronicidal]

I think people taking extra time (research, PhD, etc.) tends to inflate match lists. The match list isn't strong just because everyone's taking extra time. It's strong despite that.

That's an interesting idea actually. I wonder if one could pare down the match lists at schools to just those who graduated in 4 years...

 

[TheGreyWarden]

I don't quite understand the problem. If you want to take a year, take a year. There's plenty of opportunities and it's encouraged, if you want to do research and take the time. I've already got a mentor lined up and I'm a first year. If you don't want to do research, then don't take a year. Why does it matter what everyone else is doing?

I definitely want to do research during med school, and I'm open to taking an extra year. It's just that the people who take an extra year (or longer) for research or whatnot tend to have stronger residency applications. If you're trying to compare match lists of schools side-by-side, the percentage of students taking an extra year (or doing MSTP) may skew the comparison.

That's an interesting idea actually. I wonder if one could pare down the match lists at schools to just those who graduated in 4 years...

The Case match list included CCLCM (mandatory 5th year), so you can subtract those out to see how just Case students match. Also, Harvard HST is 1/3 MSTP, and another 1/2 do an extra year; adds up to the quoted 80% who take more than 4 years. That's a pretty tiny sample leftover though... not sure how you'd separate them either.

I don't know/remember what the percentages were at other schools. But I feel like 24% including MSTPs and especially 11% without MSTPs are pretty low numbers. I do wish all match lists were separated by MSTPs and regular MDs though...

 

[premed1313]

Does anybody know if the wait list is ranked or if there's any way to find out where you stand on it? I'm guessing most of the movement comes in May when people are making decisions, but my wife is expecting a baby in early August, making driving across the country to move in July or August much less interesting (or more interesting, depending how you look at it). I'm wondering about calling the admissions office to see if there's even a decent chance I'll get in so we can decide whether to wait or go somewhere else. Any thoughts?

 

[ksmi117]

Does anybody know if the wait list is ranked or if there's any way to find out where you stand on it? I'm guessing most of the movement comes in May when people are making decisions, but my wife is expecting a baby in early August, making driving across the country to move in July or August much less interesting (or more interesting, depending how you look at it). I'm wondering about calling the admissions office to see if there's even a decent chance I'll get in so we can decide whether to wait or go somewhere else. Any thoughts?

It's not ranked. But it really can't hurt to call and ask. They might be able to tell you something.

 

[TheGreyWarden]

So anyone check the financial aid website yet? I'm a student with <$5000 of income last year and about the same in assets. My expected student contribution is over $30k.

That sounds pretty high. Am I missing something here?

 

[nadaba]

So anyone check the financial aid website yet? I'm a student with <$5000 of income last year and about the same in assets. My expected student contribution is over $30k.

That sounds pretty high. Am I missing something here?

Definitely sounds like a mistake. I have similar assets and my student contribution is ~1500.

 

[Missorleans]

Don't they consider your parents assets and income? Or do they give a separate parental contribution amount?

 

[nadaba]

Don't they consider your parents assets and income? Or do they give a separate parental contribution amount?

They give a separate parental contribution. I think a phone call/e-mail to the financial aid office will sort it out...

 

[chronicidal]

Definitely sounds like a mistake. I have similar assets and my student contribution is ~1500.

Me too. My student contrib is $1800.

 

[Beekachu]

They give a separate parental contribution. I think a phone call/e-mail to the financial aid office will sort it out...

Does anyone's financial aid page show a value for parent contribution yet. Mine says 0 for parent, so I'm curious if they just haven't yet entered parent numbers or if that's really what they calculated for my family (I wouldn't be surprised though, my parent's don't make a lot)

 

[pooghe]

Mine says zero as well. My student contribution is the same as what others have been quoting on this thread, around 1500.

 

[lisi326]

Does anyone's financial aid page show a value for parent contribution yet. Mine says 0 for parent, so I'm curious if they just haven't yet entered parent numbers or if that's really what they calculated for my family (I wouldn't be surprised though, my parent's don't make a lot)

I'm somewhat sure that the $0 parental/$1800 student contribution is the default for when they open that window. I vaguely remember getting that last year, and then having it changed when they actually went through my stuff.

My parents were supposed to be giving 1/6 of their (not very high at all) income to me for school, so I imagine yours won't be $0.

 

[member2867]

Does anyone know when we can expect to get our financial aid award!?

 

[Itsame]

I talked to a woman in financial aid a few weeks ago to confirm that my application was complete (I think it was 3/25 ish?), I asked when she thought we might start to hear about our packages.

She indicated that it would probably not be until after the 4/16 deadline.

...That doesn't stop me from checking the website like everyday though haha

 

[nadaba]

My financial package was on the website this morning (didn't get an email). Looks like they're starting a little before the 16th.

 

[Itsame]

My financial package was on the website this morning (didn't get an email). Looks like they're starting a little before the 16th.

Hey that's great! Do you mind sharing when your file was complete?

I've been kind of obsessing over checking the website.

Also, does anyone know when we might hear about merit aid? Would it be with the need-based package, or might it come later?

 

[nadaba]

Hey that's great! Do you mind sharing when your file was complete?

I've been kind of obsessing over checking the website.

Also, does anyone know when we might hear about merit aid? Would it be with the need-based package, or might it come later?

Let's see, my verification worksheet was marked received on 3/20. I think everything else was in before that.

 

[onecountry]

At this point, can I safely assume that I shouldnt expect any waitlist movement until after May 15th?

 

[ksmi117]

If any prospective or committed students that live in the STL want to get an idea of what some WUSM students do in their free time, our school musical opens tonight. It's going to be hilarious. And if for no other reason, you should come just to see me singing, acting, and dancing.

More info can be found here: http://www.facebook.com/events/350186395032457/

 

[Flukes]

How "fully elective" is the 4th year? If I'm interested in internal medicine rather than something really competitive like ortho or derm, can I turn my 4th year into a research year?

 

[EleanorAutumn]

Anyone know what the best way to withdraw is? Email? Phone? Letter?

 

[ksmi117]

How "fully elective" is the 4th year? If I'm interested in internal medicine rather than something really competitive like ortho or derm, can I turn my 4th year into a research year?

You can't just do research the entire year. You have to do some number of rotations in the hospital, there's just no required ones you have to do.

 

[TheGreyWarden]

You can't just do research the entire year. You have to do some number of rotations in the hospital, there's just no required ones you have to do.

I think I read somewhere on the website that it's max 3 electives (3 months) of research.

 

[Isleofthedeep]

Has anyone received a merit scholarship award since December?

 

[member2867]

My financial package was on the website this morning (didn't get an email). Looks like they're starting a little before the 16th.

Has anyone else received their award since this?

 

[Itsame]

Yep. Got mine on Friday. Wasn't all that promising though. It shows up on the website before you get the email.

Does anyone know about the merit aid though? If it's all gone, it looks like I'll be giving up my seat.

 

[Beekachu]

Yep. Got mine on Friday. Wasn't all that promising though. It shows up on the website before you get the email.

Does anyone know about the merit aid though? If it's all gone, it looks like I'll be giving up my seat.

I called the admissions office right before second look (on the 12th I think..) to ask about merit aid, and the woman I spoke with said that a few full-tuition awards had been given out already, but most of them still remained and would be awarded in late April and maybe early May.

Looking last year threads, I think I saw that in late April people were notified one way or the other if they were awarded a merit scholarship. Here's to hoping for good news soon !

 

[TheGreyWarden]

At most med schools, you pay for tuition, random fees, and health insurance separately, so you can waive out of health insurance if your parents' plan is better and/or cheaper.

Are we allowed to waive out of WashU's health insurance plan?

 

[ksmi117]

At most med schools, you pay for tuition, random fees, and health insurance separately, so you can waive out of health insurance if your parents' plan is better and/or cheaper.

Are we allowed to waive out of WashU's health insurance plan?

Nope, it's not really a separate cost anyway. It's all just part of the tuition we pay. But it's pretty awesome health insurance so I wouldn't want to opt out anyway.

 

[Beekachu]

So I'm pretty much set on being at WashU in the Fall!! SO excited!

I just have a question to any current (or prospective) student about the COA estimates. When it lists $950 for medical instruments and $656 for books, are those based on any required purchases? What instruments will I be purchasing each year? Or what books for that matter? Just seems like a large number

I'm just trying to see how to minimize my budget (and loans), thanks!

 

[condor87]

When it lists $950 for medical instruments and $656 for books, are those based on any required purchases? What instruments will I be purchasing each year? Or what books for that matter?

As for medical instruments, you'll need a stethoscope (can be ~$250+), a reflex hammer ($30), and a tuning fork (<$30). They highly recommend that you buy an ophthalmoscope, the nice ones called 'Panoptics' can be >$500 if my memory serves me correct. Of my circle of 7 buddies and I, only one of us bought one and it wasn't even the nice one. All of the hospital rooms and standardized patient suites have them built into the exam rooms, so there is really no need to have one until you are on an opthomology rotation during third year. Thus, $950 for medial instruments is more like $500, and that's a one-time expense unless you lose or break something (and I'm pretty sure the nice stethoscopes have lifetime warrantees that even cover complete destruction like getting run over by a car). For anatomy, though, you need gloves of your size and scalpels (both sold in the bookstore and cost next to nothing).

As for books, WashU really doesn't require many books at all. Two anatomy books are required (classic 'big' Netter's and the dissection guide = total of $100). Just about everyone gets Costanzo's 'Physiology', it's a really great learning and reference book (few books are both) and only $50. Other than that, people often tend to pick up a histology book and an embryology book. A lot of books can be bought from upperclassmen for very cheap, and there's a book hand-down sometime in the fall each year.

Second year you will definitely spend a good deal more money than $650 on school resources. I'd say that a good fraction of the class budgets close to $1000 if not more for the Step 1 boards ($525 to take the test, plus question banks/practice tests and 3-4 review books).