2015-2016 Duke University Application Thread

BU Medical Sciences
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phuynh94 said:
D'AWWWWWW you're making me blush, haha! 😊 I was just incredibly privileged to be able to just...block out my time for pre-writing, which I know is simply not possible for some people. (That, and many of the schools I applied to required pretty generic secondaries, Duke being one of the few exceptions.) In the end though, I'm sure your hard work will pay off and you'll be swimming in IIs! 😉 Just work hard! We're rooting for you!
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Why couldn't you be mean! At least I would be able to hate you that way! 😉

AnophelesGambiae said:
+1, I feel like @phuynh94 is more excited (for me) than I am each time I get an II!
Edit: seeing ghastly as the icon helps too 😏
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I approve of your parallel construction.
 
finestein said:
Y'all are making me scared with your great stats. This is a reach school for me with a lowly 70-72 LizzyM
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Dude. You realize that this is one of the best medical schools in the world. A 70-72 is amazing🙂 Don't feel bad/be scared because of people on here. U are awesome. The fact that you are applying to one of the most competitive graduate programs in existence is a huge accomplishment by itself🙂

Edit: just realized u r female. lol *dudette
 
If Duke was super stat focused, I'd be more than a little peeved off after completing that monstrous secondary.
 
Does Duke prefer 2015 MCATS? I just read that on their site. Don't know why I didn't look before I did the secondary. I have old MCATS. Am I out?
 
chemist_acs said:
Does Duke prefer 2015 MCATS? I just read that on their site. Don't know why I didn't look before I did the secondary. I have old MCATS. Am I out?
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I would think that ALL schools prefer the 2015 for its strength as an assessment... if the 199x one was preferred, then they wouldn't make a new test! Why replace something good with something bad? With that being said, I don't think they have a preference for APPLICANTS with one test or the other- that's the distinction. Am I articulating myself clearly?
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
I would think that ALL schools prefer the 2015 for its strength as an assessment... if the 199x one was preferred, then they wouldn't make a new test! Why replace something good with something bad? With that being said, I don't think they have a preference for APPLICANTS with one test or the other- that's the distinction. Am I articulating myself clearly?
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Although I am completely speculating, I highly doubt that adcoms actually know whether or not the new MCAT is a stronger assessment at this point. Due to the fact that they are incredibly well accustomed to the old MCAT, I highly doubt that they prefer the new one. They will use percentiles until they get adjusted to whatever the hell a "508" means. I doubt it matters either way.
 
BurghMed said:
Although I am completely speculating, I highly doubt that adcoms actually know whether or not the new MCAT is a stronger assessment at this point. Due to the fact that they are incredibly well accustomed to the old MCAT, I highly doubt that they prefer the new one. They will use percentiles until they get adjusted to whatever the hell a "508" means. I doubt it matters either way.
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Apparently I wasn't articulating myself clearly. Essentially what I'm trying to say is this.

If the old MCAT is better than the new MCAT, then why would they administer the new one at all? Why not just keep using the "better" one? Obviously, the new MCAT fixes issues that were present in the old one, or else it wouldn't exist because, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The AAMC is not some big, ruling body that medical schools are forced to bend to against their will. It's made up of people from actual medical schools who potentially have a stake in who gets into medical school AND what the new MCAT will be like. There are probably a lot of medical school faculty and higher ups who are passionate about the new MCAT and its use as an admissions tool, especially the people who conceived of it in the first place- they must hold faculty positions somewhere, right? Or at least be influenced by people who do.

BUT, that doesn't mean people who took the old MCAT are at a disadvantage. There is a difference between preferring the new MCAT and preferring applicants with the new MCAT. I would think Duke is part of the former.
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
Apparently I wasn't articulating myself clearly. Essentially what I'm trying to say is this.

If the old MCAT is better than the new MCAT, then why would they administer the new one at all? Why not just keep using the "better" one? Obviously, the new MCAT fixes issues that were present in the old one, or else it wouldn't exist because, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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It will take some time (perhaps many years) before adcoms know if it is indeed "better". They will have to do some statistical analysis of med student performance across different scores. This could be reflected in USMLE scores, retention rates, match percentage, or any number of statistical categories. Even then, they may not discern any difference between the two tests.

One reason to fix something that ain't broke is to make money, i.e. from selling more testing materials, practice tests, and so on. AAMC is in fact a business. Not saying that I totally disagree with Duke's preferences regarding new vs. old scores, because I have no way of knowing that for certain...so thought I would play devil's advocate!
 
Eb123 said:
It will take some time (perhaps many years) before adcoms know if it is indeed "better". They will have to do some statistical analysis of med student performance across different scores. This could be reflected in USMLE scores, retention rates, match percentage, or any number of statistical categories. Even then, they may not discern any difference between the two tests.

One reason to fix something that ain't broke is to make money, i.e. from selling more testing materials, practice tests, and so on. AAMC is in fact a business. Not saying that I totally disagree with Duke's preferences regarding new vs. old scores, because I have no way of knowing that for certain...so thought I would play devil's advocate!
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I guess I'm just a bit less cynical 🙂 Might be that I'm being too naive in regards to AAMC and its goals. But both viewpoints are perfectly legitimate!
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
Apparently I wasn't articulating myself clearly. Essentially what I'm trying to say is this.

If the old MCAT is better than the new MCAT, then why would they administer the new one at all? Why not just keep using the "better" one? Obviously, the new MCAT fixes issues that were present in the old one, or else it wouldn't exist because, well, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

The AAMC is not some big, ruling body that medical schools are forced to bend to against their will. It's made up of people from actual medical schools who potentially have a stake in who gets into medical school AND what the new MCAT will be like. There are probably a lot of medical school faculty and higher ups who are passionate about the new MCAT and its use as an admissions tool, especially the people who conceived of it in the first place- they must hold faculty positions somewhere, right? Or at least be influenced by people who do.

BUT, that doesn't mean people who took the old MCAT are at a disadvantage. There is a difference between preferring the new MCAT and preferring applicants with the new MCAT. I would think Duke is part of the former.
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Ah, see, the bolded is where we disagree 😉

I would actually imagine that the individual adcoms will continue to prefer the test that they are familiar with assessing until they have had a cycle or two of the new score under their belt.
 
mehc012 said:
Ah, see, the bolded is where we disagree 😉

I would actually imagine that the individual adcoms will continue to prefer the test that they are familiar with assessing until they have had a cycle or two of the new score under their belt.
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It's funny how every single person speculates that adcoms will prefer whatever test they took. Gotta love that premed ego!
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
It's funny how every single person speculates that adcoms will prefer whatever test they took. Gotta love that premed ego!
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I mean, I took the 2014 exam very intentionally because I thought that, so it's hardly a coincidence! :laugh:

You are actually the first person I have seen who seems to think that the adcoms will actually prefer the new scores rather than those they are familiar with. I have seen discussions about schools wanting to transition over, but never before an argument that the actual individuals reviewing applications would prefer the new exam because it was a better metric.
 
mehc012 said:
I mean, I took the 2014 exam very intentionally because I thought that, so it's hardly a coincidence! :laugh:

You are actually the first person I have seen who seems to think that the adcoms will actually prefer the new scores rather than those they are familiar with. I have seen discussions about schools wanting to transition over, but never before an argument that the actual individuals reviewing applications would prefer the new exam because it was a better metric.
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Ah, but you have to go back and read my posts then if you said I think they'll prefer new scores! I never even remotely said that!

I think the easiest thing to do would be to simply split the pile of applicants. So if 60% apply with an old score and 40% with a new, split that into two separate piles, and, for a class of 100, admit 60 old scores and 40 new.
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
Ah, but you have to go back and read my posts then if you said I think they'll prefer new scores! I never even remotely said that!
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chocoholicsoxfan said:
I would think that ALL schools prefer the 2015 for its strength as an assessment
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:eyebrow::laugh:
chocoholicsoxfan said:
I think the easiest thing to do would be to simply split the pile of applicants. So if 60% apply with an old score and 40% with a new, split that into two separate piles, and, for a class of 100, admit 60 old scores and 40 new.
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Easy, sure, but a horrible way to choose a class. More likely, everyone will simply pay more attention to percentile than actual number, and get used to converting between scores in their heads.

It's like learning a language. At first, you read the foreign text and mentally convert it into English in order to understand it. However, as you see it more and more and become used to the process, you stop 'converting' it quite so much because you are so familiar with it, and eventually just read the words straight. I imagine that by the end of this cycle, the adcoms will have seen so many of both scores that they'll be familiar with the 'language' of each scale.
 
mehc012 said:
:eyebrow::laugh:

Easy, sure, but a horrible way to choose a class. More likely, everyone will simply pay more attention to percentile than actual number, and get used to converting between scores in their heads.

It's like learning a language. At first, you read the foreign text and mentally convert it into English in order to understand it. However, as you see it more and more and become used to the process, you stop 'converting' it quite so much because you are so familiar with it, and eventually just read the words straight. I imagine that by the end of this cycle, the adcoms will have seen so many of both scores that they'll be familiar with the 'language' of each scale.
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*for its strength as an assessment* is different than what's actually done! I'm gonna say it again (3x). There's a difference between preferring the MCAT 2015 and preferring APPLICANTS with the MCAT 2015.

If I am admitting people into a college, I can say that I like the ACT better than the SAT because I think the ACT has certain strengths (like a science section). But if someone has a 2400 on the SAT and has great ECs and is being compared to someone with a 36 on the ACT and no ECs, then I'm obviously gonna pick the guy who took the SAT. *Your choice of test has no bearing on the personal preferences of the school or its faculty.*

If Duke says "omg, this test has a new humanities and biochemical section. That's so cool!" It does not mean they're taking a dump on people who took the old test. It just means that they see the need for the change in assessment and are excited about it, and how it'll work going forward! Does THAT make sense?

Just stop trying to argue that people who took the new test are at a disadvantage is all I'm saying because I feel like objectively that can't be true, and I've only ever seen old test takers argue that.
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
*for its strength as an assessment* is different than what's actually done! I'm gonna say it again (3x). There's a difference between preferring the MCAT 2015 and preferring APPLICANTS with the MCAT 2015.

If I am admitting people into a college, I can say that I like the ACT better than the SAT because I think the ACT has certain strengths (like a science section). But if someone has a 2400 on the SAT and has great ECs and is being compared to someone with a 36 on the ACT and no ECs, then I'm obviously gonna pick the guy who took the SAT. *Your choice of test has no bearing on the personal preferences of the school or its faculty.*

If Duke says "omg, this test has a new humanities and biochemical section. That's so cool!" It does not mean they're taking a dump on people who took the old test. It just means that they see the need for the change in assessment and are excited about it, and how it'll work going forward! Does THAT make sense?

Just stop trying to argue that people who took the new test are at a disadvantage is all I'm saying because I feel like objectively that can't be true, and I've only ever seen old test takers argue that.
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I haven't said anything about anyone being at a disadvantage!
When I say 'prefer' I mean "if given a choice between evaluating apps with 2015 MCAT or old MCAT, they would prefer to look at the score they know/understand", not "will let in someone with a crummy old MCAT over someone with a good 2015 MCAT".

I understood what you were saying about preferring the actual TEST (I also never used the word disadvantaged when responding to your take), and already pointed out to you why I disagree with that: I think AMCAS is very much a disconnected body handing down decisions regarding the test, and most adcoms are just shrugging and going "OK, here is what we are doing now." I don't think that AMCAS' decision necessarily tells us jack all about the preferences of individual adcoms. I have outlined above my own reason for thinking that the individuals would prefer to use the old TEST over the new TEST when making evaluations (which, as you point out, does not equal discrimination between applicants with one or the other score). That doesn't mean this won't change in the future as they become familiar with the new one (as I described in my last post).

I am disagreeing with you, not because I don't understand your point, but because I simply don't concur.

At any rate, I've said my piece, you've said your piece, neither of us believe it makes a difference to the individual applicant, and I don't believe anyone is hugely invested in this beyond that point of agreement :shrug: Shake hands?!
 
mehc012 said:
I haven't said anything about anyone being at a disadvantage!
When I say 'prefer' I mean "if given a choice between evaluating apps with 2015 MCAT or old MCAT, they would prefer to look at the score they know/understand", not "will let in someone with a crummy old MCAT over someone with a good 2015 MCAT".

I understood what you were saying about preferring the actual TEST (I also never used the word disadvantaged when responding to your take), and already pointed out to you why I disagree with that: I think AMCAS is very much a disconnected body handing down decisions regarding the test, and most adcoms are just shrugging and going "OK, here is what we are doing now." I don't think that AMCAS' decision necessarily tells us jack all about the preferences of individual adcoms. I have outlined above my own reason for thinking that the individuals would prefer to use the old TEST over the new TEST when making evaluations (which, as you point out, does not equal discrimination between applicants with one or the other score). That doesn't mean this won't change in the future as they become familiar with the new one (as I described in my last post).

I am disagreeing with you, not because I don't understand your point, but because I simply don't concur.

At any rate, I've said my piece, you've said your piece, neither of us believe it makes a difference to the individual applicant, and I don't believe anyone is hugely invested in this beyond that point of agreement :shrug: Shake hands?!
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Sure shake hands. But I guess I just don't understand what you're basing this assumption off of. The USNWR article and Duke's admissions webite makes it seem as though they're pretty enthusiastic about embracing the humanities as part of the premed curriculum, which is what I'm basing my belief that they like the new MCAT (which incorporates these aspects) off of.

Example:

The new "academic expectations" are the result of extensive discussions among both the clinical and basic science faculty of the School of Medicine. The foundation of these expectations is based on competency-based, cross-disciplinary training in biology, chemistry, and physics and the link these disciplines have before and throughout formal training in medicine. Additionally, in conjunction with the traditional preparation of the biomedical sciences, the need to understand the larger psychosocial context in which medicine is increasingly practiced requires significant exposure to the social sciences.

Duke University School of Medicine acknowledges the rapid evolution of the biomedical sciences and the challenges that socially-driven disparities in medicine present. Those aspiring for clinical and research careers in medicine must be prepared in a much different manner to expertly address the rapid changes in the healthcare environment.
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
Sure shake hands. But I guess I just don't understand what you're basing this assumption off of. The USNWR article and Duke's admissions webite makes it seem as though they're pretty enthusiastic about embracing the humanities as part of the premed curriculum, which is what I'm basing my belief that they like the new MCAT (which incorporates these aspects) off of.

Example:

The new "academic expectations" are the result of extensive discussions among both the clinical and basic science faculty of the School of Medicine. The foundation of these expectations is based on competency-based, cross-disciplinary training in biology, chemistry, and physics and the link these disciplines have before and throughout formal training in medicine. Additionally, in conjunction with the traditional preparation of the biomedical sciences, the need to understand the larger psychosocial context in which medicine is increasingly practiced requires significant exposure to the social sciences.

Duke University School of Medicine acknowledges the rapid evolution of the biomedical sciences and the challenges that socially-driven disparities in medicine present. Those aspiring for clinical and research careers in medicine must be prepared in a much different manner to expertly address the rapid changes in the healthcare environment.
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I guess I don't put much stock in canned BS responses by the institution as a whole when I contemplate the attitudes of individual employees. My company puts out plenty of official statements that have no relevance to my own preferences/opinions on anything.
 
mehc012 said:
I guess I don't put much stock in canned BS responses by the institution as a whole when I contemplate the attitudes of individual employees. My company puts out plenty of official statements that have no relevance to my own preferences/opinions on anything.
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Eh, I will say that that's not the best 1:1 comparison to use...AdComs are specifically trained to select applicants who uphold the qualities of the school on both the practical and philosophical level. They pay close attention to that stuff.
 
panda16 said:
Eh, I will say that that's not the best 1:1 comparison to use...AdComs are specifically trained to select applicants who uphold the qualities of the school on both the practical and philosophical level. They pay close attention to that stuff.
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Training affects actions, not their personal opinion.
 
Been putting off Duke's secondary for a long time because it's so much harder than all my other ones... to start or not to start 😀
 
Finally made it to the last "challenge dealing with others unlike yourself" and am struggling. I want to finish today though! I guess just relating to/understanding those with different backgrounds...?
 
wanderyonder said:
Been putting off Duke's secondary for a long time because it's so much harder than all my other ones... to start or not to start 😀
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I found that the prospect of starting was much worse than the actual thing. Once I started, I just did a stream of consciousness type thing, banged it out in three hours, edited for maybe a half hour, and submitted! These topics were very conducive to that style of writing, imo
 
chocoholicsoxfan said:
I found that the prospect of starting was much worse than the actual thing. Once I started, I just did a stream of consciousness type thing, banged it out in three hours, edited for maybe a half hour, and submitted! These topics were very conducive to that style of writing, imo
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So jealous of people who can write this quickly/efficiently. It's probably taken me about twice that long for each of their essays 🙁
 
starlite911 said:
So jealous of people who can write this quickly/efficiently. It's probably taken me about twice that long for each of their essays 🙁
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Well I had been thinking about/mapping it out in my head for days. It took me 3 days to settle on an advocacy topic and figure out how I was going to support it, and I outlined it pretty extensively in my head. Then once I sat down to do it, it was much quicker! These are the things that keep me up at night, lol
 
Last year everyone who did the penguin avatars basically got interviews. Will this year's trend be Pokemon? If so, dibs on Exeggutor.
 
jagster92 said:
hahaha i guess i better go look at some pokemon then.
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Anything that can evolve would be super fun. 😉

2 evolutions: premed --> accepted!
3 evolutions: pre II --> first II --> acceptance OR premed --> acceptance --> matriculation
 
OH I forgot @oneirologist (who needs to get back to a stage 1 Pokemon instead of jumping the gun to stage 2 already!)
 
phuynh94 said:
Anything that can evolve would be super fun. 😉

2 evolutions: premed --> accepted!
3 evolutions: pre II --> first II --> acceptance OR premed --> acceptance --> matriculation
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If it's 3 evolutions, it has to be the latter choice. Getting an II isn't enough to evolve IMO! Evolving on average takes like 20-30 level ups to do
 
avgn said:
If it's 3 evolutions, it has to be the latter choice. Getting an II isn't enough to evolve IMO! Evolving on average takes like 20-30 level ups to do
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I'm definitely levelling up after I attend my first interview. I have a 3.3, an II might be the pinnacle of my app cycle, lol!
 
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