2019-2020 Mt. Sinai (Icahn)

[tessellations]

This whole process just favors the rich and fortunate. I didn't have the opportunity or the funds to attend an elite institution, but I made the best out of my state school, succeeded in my classes and was heavily involved in extra curriculars. This process just made me realize that I was playing a losing game from the moment I started college.

Same here, my friend. I'm proud to be a state school graduate, and will forever be thankful for the education my state provided me. But it is a sad reality that in elite fields such as medicine, it can set you back to some extent.

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[coffee&scrubs]

Same here, my friend. I'm proud to be a state school graduate, and will forever be thankful for the education my state provided me. But it is a sad reality that in elite fields such as medicine, it can set you back to some extent.

I feel like we're very similar, almost the same stats too (516 and 3.98). I will never regret going to a state school either, I'm pretty much debt free, and I personally think I'm very prepared for medical school. To be honest, I'd rather attend a school that appreciates diversity from all aspects, including university attended. Schools that just try to snatch up all the ivy grads seem to be overcompensating for something, but I digress.

 

[bluethroat]

It is, and always has been, and will continue to be an uphill battle for those of us not privileged enough to attend elite institutions. The buck won't stop here, not during residency apps, nor during the job hunt. It's best to be confident in our abilities and do the best we can do with what we have, the rest is up to fate.

 

[thesecretisme123]

Not sure if you meant this to be reassuring, but this is an incredibly depressing statistic. It's obviously not on you, but to me this shows an immense amount of elitism. 75% of offers to elite school graduates is insane. Especially when you consider that at many of these institutions, there is grade inflation that makes it even easier to succeed in comparison to those who went to non-elite institutions.

Guess it's just the name of the game.

I feel like we're very similar, almost the same stats too (516 and 3.98). I will never regret going to a state school either, I'm pretty much debt free, and I personally think I'm very prepared for medical school. To be honest, I'd rather attend a school that appreciates diversity from all aspects, including university attended. Schools that just try to snatch up all the ivy grads seem to be overcompensating for something, but I digress.

I also went to my state's flagship school known for academic rigor and grade deflation, and felt like my school's name helped me get away with lower stats considering my outcomes so far. This dirty game means we have to use every advantage we have. At top tier interviews, 75-90% are from elite schools. I recall an instance where there were 12 interviewees and 4 were from Harvard alone. It's an uphill climb, but it's definitely doable. I think y'all should give yourself credits for your success so far Medicine is an old boys club but once you get into it you're a part of the fam, according to my friend who is a MS4 at Columbia haha

 

[coffee&scrubs]

I also went to my state's flagship school known for academic rigor and grade deflation, and felt like my school's name helped me get away with lower stats considering my outcomes so far. This dirty game means we have to use every advantage we have. At top tier interviews, 75-90% are from elite schools. I recall an instance where there were 12 interviewees and 4 were from Harvard alone. It's an uphill climb, but it's definitely doable. I think y'all should give yourself credits for your success so far Medicine is an old boys club but once you get into it you're a part of the fam, according to my friend who is a MS4 at Columbia haha

So far on my interview trail, I haven't met anyone who has attended a school with similar to or worse rank than my state school. It's a given when I go into my interviews and introduce myself to the other interviewees, that I am at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of school prestige. At one of my interviews, I was seated next to an Oxford grad on one side and a Harvard grad on the other. It was almost comical. But then again, we all were interviewing at the same school, so the adcom must have seen something in me.

 

[Pluto98]

So far on my interview trail, I haven't met anyone who has attended a school with similar to or worse rank than my state school. It's a given when I go into my interviews and introduce myself to the other interviewees, that I am at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of school prestige. At one of my interviews, I was seated next to an Oxford grad on one side and a Harvard grad on the other. It was almost comical. But then again, we all were interviewing at the same school, so the adcom must have seen something in me.

Which school was this

 

[u_raptor]

So far on my interview trail, I haven't met anyone who has attended a school with similar to or worse rank than my state school. It's a given when I go into my interviews and introduce myself to the other interviewees, that I am at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of school prestige. At one of my interviews, I was seated next to an Oxford grad on one side and a Harvard grad on the other. It was almost comical. But then again, we all were interviewing at the same school, so the adcom must have seen something in me.

I feel that. I've only met one other from my state school on my trail, which is frankly kinda crazy to me (my school is one of the largest of my state iirc). Beyond that, it always hurts when I get to the I day, and the head of the admissions office immediately clicks with a student from an ivy because of "which house were you in". It definitely makes me feel like I'm an outsider of a social circle

 

[coffee&scrubs]

I feel that. I've only met one other from my state school on my trail, which is frankly kinda crazy to me (my school is one of the largest of my state iirc). Beyond that, it always hurts when I get to the I day, and the head of the admissions office immediately clicks with a student from an ivy because of "which house were you in". It definitely makes me feel like I'm an outsider of a social circle

I've noticed that at the schools where our name tags included our undergraduate school, conversations were geared in that direction. However, I had one interview where our undergrad wasn't on our name tags, and we weren't asked to say it during ice breakers. The vibe of that whole interview was so different. We all bonded over our shared interests, and because we didn't filter each other through what was written on our name tags, we got to know people who we may not have approached had there been more info.

Which school was this

PM me!

 

[u_raptor]

I've noticed that at the schools where our name tags included our undergraduate school, conversations were geared in that direction. However, I had one interview where our undergrad wasn't on our name tags, and we weren't asked to say it during ice breakers. The vibe of that whole interview was so different. We all bonded over our shared interests, and because we didn't filter each other through what was written on our name tags, we got to know people who we may not have approached had there been more info.



PM me!

Man I think I prefer that. I get the point that getting to an ivy *can* be a huge accomplishment in itself, leading to that name recognition at med schools. But for many, even though they had good HS stats they didn't have the legacy, HS prestige, or $ to go to ivy. While Ivy's can be signs of accomplishment, I frankly have a hard time understanding why two students of equal stats, one from ivy one from state school, are not equal in the eyes of admissions because of that. It's disappointing...

 

[ObjectiveBoba]

So far on my interview trail, I haven't met anyone who has attended a school with similar to or worse rank than my state school. It's a given when I go into my interviews and introduce myself to the other interviewees, that I am at the bottom of the totem pole in terms of school prestige.

To be fair, isn't a major factor (if not the major factor, judging by MSAR...) in gaining top tier interviews the MCAT, and top undergrads tend to have higher MCAT scores? Someone from MIT told me that their average MCAT score for accepted students there was something like a 518. In contrast, a top state school like UCLA has an accepted average of 514 (even though there's much greater weeding out at UCLA). Probabilistically, there's just a higher chance of top undergrads having students who obtain higher MCAT scores, so you'll see more of them on the interview trail if you interview at top tier medical schools.

From talking with admissions officers, it never really seemed like which college you attended mattered as much as people like to think. They always mentioned that students from these schools tend to have higher MCAT scores or have access to excellent research and so forth. I think jonnytest mentioned that it was a "mild" bump but in the grand scheme when the committee goes over an application, either during the interview screening or post-interview, I just can't imagine it meaning very much when the committee is more focused on experiences and interview performance than by the name of where you went to undergrad.

 

[deleted688779]

Man I think I prefer that. I get the point that getting to an ivy *can* be a huge accomplishment in itself, leading to that name recognition at med schools. But for many, even though they had good HS stats they didn't have the legacy, HS prestige, or $ to go to ivy. While Ivy's can be signs of accomplishment, I frankly have a hard time understanding why two students of equal stats, one from ivy one from state school, are not equal in the eyes of admissions because of that. It's disappointing...

In addition, one can also argue that at the high-school level, at that age, at that level of life-experience, and at that point in development, students are not able to make decisions or have habits that are an accurate reflection of their true capabilities and qualities. It is unfair, and unreasonable, to say your choices as a 14 year old have an effect on whether you can get into a med school/your medical school of choice.

 

[deleted688779]

To be fair, isn't a major factor (if not the major factor, judging by MSAR...) in gaining top tier interviews the MCAT, and top undergrads tend to have higher MCAT scores? Someone from MIT told me that their average MCAT score for accepted students there was something like a 518. In contrast, a top state school like UCLA has an accepted average of 514 (even though there's much greater weeding out at UCLA). Probabilistically, there's just a higher chance of top undergrads having students who obtain higher MCAT scores, so you'll see more of them on the interview trail if you interview at top tier medical schools.

From talking with admissions officers, it never really seemed like which college you attended mattered as much as people like to think. They always mentioned that students from these schools tend to have higher MCAT scores or have access to excellent research and so forth. I think jonnytest mentioned that it was a "mild" bump but in the grand scheme when the committee goes over an application, either during the interview screening or post-interview, I just can't imagine it meaning very much when the committee is more focused on experiences and interview performance than by the name of where you went to undergrad.

Does MIT filter out their applicants? Meaning that statistic of 518 would be inflated. UCLA does not have committee letters and anyone is free to apply, so a 502 can apply and get in and be counted towards their statistic. Meanwhile, a 502 from MIT might be able to get in but would not be able to apply, thus not pulling down that 518. Regardless, I think you do have a point.

Also, I think that is something admissions officers do not like to admit, whether true or not. It doesn't sound nice, doesn't sound like they are on the side of social justice, and it does sound like it would probably cut their #of applications if they say they factor in undergrad prestige. Regardless of whether or not they factor it in, they will deny it. It's a business decision.

 

[johnnytest]

Not sure if you meant this to be reassuring, but this is an incredibly depressing statistic. It's obviously not on you, but to me this shows an immense amount of elitism. 75% of offers to elite school graduates is insane. Especially when you consider that at many of these institutions, there is grade inflation that makes it even easier to succeed in comparison to those who went to non-elite institutions.

Guess it's just the name of the game.

This whole process just favors the rich and fortunate. I didn't have the opportunity or the funds to attend an elite institution, but I made the best out of my state school, succeeded in my classes and was heavily involved in extra curriculars. This process just made me realize that I was playing a losing game from the moment I started college.

Unfortunately this is the reality of medical school and I can assume other professions such as finance and law are the same. I came from public university and went to public school my whole life. The culture shock of the elite and rich at Sinai took me some time to even comprehend. Some of my classmates have parents who are billionaires. Some of my classmates are directly related to pioneers in the medical field. I think almost 30% or more of my class have parents who are doctors. Coming to medical school I realized how naive and sheltered I was to the 1% and now the 1% seemed to be the majority in my class. From a social and economic standpoint, I couldn't help but feel extremely left out but I wanted to be a doctor and I got accepted to a really good school so I always felt grateful for the opportunity. I know down the road, I will be a part of the same economic class that many of my classmates enjoyed in their upbringing. But, hopefully, my kids will benefit from it and I hope I can raise them to be humble and not feel elitist because they are rich or go to top schools.

I do think the resilience and resourceful factors come into play when we see students from state and public schools do just as well as students from the elite school. I do think we could accept more students from non elite schools as I feel they would contribute equally amazing things to our community. But, these types of decisions are well above my pay grade.

In medicine, this is the norm. You'll see it again in residency interviews. The real talk is certain establishments are built to further empower those already in those establishments and give few chances to those outside of it. I do believe Sinai tries its best to give opportunities to those who would not receive it from other elite schools. I think I am definitely an example of that. I believe if you were to compare us to Columbia, Cornell, and NYU, I'd bet we are the most down to earth.

Ultimately, to each their own. You'll discover certain elite schools have malignant clinical departments where they demand perfection from their residents and if that's the type of environment you enjoy and like to be pushed to your absolute best potential then by all means. I think for someone like me, my biggest accomplishment was getting into medical school and now on my way to graduate. I'm going to be a doctor and as a 1st gen immigrant that's my "I made it" or "American Dream" story. I'll let my kids go crazy wanting to be the absolute best and win all the accolades. I'm just happy to be part of the club. Eventually everyone except surgeons (lol jk) becomes humbled at some point when they realize there are talented individuals across all fields.

Happy to discuss more about the structures of medicine and elitism as it's something that I've definitely had to deal with as a minority. The advice I like to give is basically the one I've applied myself in undergraduate. Just put your head down and do the work you need to and the rest will take care of itself.

 

[Med.Geek]

From talking with admissions officers, it never really seemed like which college you attended mattered as much as people like to think. They always mentioned that students from these schools tend to have higher MCAT scores or have access to excellent research and so forth. I think jonnytest mentioned that it was a "mild" bump but in the grand scheme when the committee goes over an application, either during the interview screening or post-interview, I just can't imagine it meaning very much when the committee is more focused on experiences and interview performance than by the name of where you went to undergrad.

I don't know, some of my interviews at the more "elite" institutions makes me think otherwise. The majority of my interviewers at these programs asked why I went to my state school. I didn't think much of it at the time, but the more I read through this thread the more off-putting it sounds to me. If it doesn't matter all that much, then why is it something that was almost always brought it up in my interviews?

For context, I'm also from a state school with similar stats to many of the posters (517/4).

 

[thesecretisme123]

Unfortunately this is the reality of medical school and I can assume other professions such as finance and law are the same. I came from public university and went to public school my whole life. The culture shock of the elite and rich at Sinai took me some time to even comprehend. Some of my classmates have parents who are billionaires. Some of my classmates are directly related to pioneers in the medical field. I think almost 30% or more of my class have parents who are doctors. Coming to medical school I realized how naive and sheltered I was to the 1% and now the 1% seemed to be the majority in my class. From a social and economic standpoint, I couldn't help but feel extremely left out but I wanted to be a doctor and I got accepted to a really good school so I always felt grateful for the opportunity. I know down the road, I will be a part of the same economic class that many of my classmates enjoyed in their my upbringing. But, hopefully, my kids will benefit from it and I hope I can raise them to be humble and not feel elitist because they rich or go to top schools.

I do think the resilience and resourceful factors come into play when we see students from state and public schools do just as well as students from the elite school. I do think we could accept more students from non elite schools as I feel they would contribute equally amazing things to our community. But, these types of decisions are well above my pay grade.

In medicine, this is the norm. You'll see it again in residency interviews. The real talk is certain establishments are built to further empower those already in those establishments and give few chances to those outside of it. I do believe Sinai tries its best to give opportunities to those who would not receive it from other elite schools. I think I am definitely an example of that. I believe if you were to compare us to Columbia, Cornell, and NYU, I'd bet we are the most down to earth.

Ultimately, to each their own. You'll discover certain elite schools have malignant clinical departments where they demand perfection from their residents and if that's the type of environment you enjoy and like to be pushed to your absolute best potential then by all means. I think for someone like me, my biggest accomplishment was getting into medical school and now on my way to graduate. I'm going to be a doctor and as a 1st gen immigrant that's my "I made it" or "American Dream" story. I'll let my kids go crazy wanting to be the absolute best and win all the accolades. I'm just happy to be part of the club. Eventually everyone except surgeons (lol jk) becomes humbled at some point when they realize there are talented individuals across all fields.

Happy to discuss more about the structures of medicine and elitism as it's something that I've definitely had to deal with as a minority. The advice I like to give is basically the one I've applied myself in undergraduate. Just put your head down and do the work you need to and the rest will take care of itself.

N=1 but I got an interview at Cornell with a similar background but not here. An acceptance is a different story What are your thoughts on the rampant elitism, especially at the 4 Manhattan schools, and how that affects patient care? Do these schools have good relationships with the communities they serve or are they just seen as ivory towers who care about how good they look?

 

[u_raptor]

To be fair, isn't a major factor (if not the major factor, judging by MSAR...) in gaining top tier interviews the MCAT, and top undergrads tend to have higher MCAT scores? Someone from MIT told me that their average MCAT score for accepted students there was something like a 518. In contrast, a top state school like UCLA has an accepted average of 514 (even though there's much greater weeding out at UCLA). Probabilistically, there's just a higher chance of top undergrads having students who obtain higher MCAT scores, so you'll see more of them on the interview trail if you interview at top tier medical schools.

From talking with admissions officers, it never really seemed like which college you attended mattered as much as people like to think. They always mentioned that students from these schools tend to have higher MCAT scores or have access to excellent research and so forth. I think jonnytest mentioned that it was a "mild" bump but in the grand scheme when the committee goes over an application, either during the interview screening or post-interview, I just can't imagine it meaning very much when the committee is more focused on experiences and interview performance than by the name of where you went to undergrad.

Yes top schools tend to produce higher MCAT. But the issue isn't in that, it's when you have two equal applicants with equal MCAT. One from a state school, one from Harvard or any other ivy. The issue isn't that top schools produce higher MCAT, it's that the "mild bump" bw those two exist in the first place. Schools, especially the higher ones rn, keep discussing diversity and trying to get rid of elitism. Yet they give a mild bump to a continuous select applicant pool that will likely look the same year to year. It's disappointing, but as johnny test said that's the reality. I'm lucky enough to have gotten where I am, even though I'm from a state school. It's just disappointing to see and seems to compound the feeling of elitism I experienced during some I days.

 

[johnnytest]

I don't know, some of my interviews at the more "elite" institutions makes me think otherwise. The majority of my interviewers at these programs asked why I went to my state school. I didn't think much of it at the time, but the more I read through this thread the more off-putting it sounds to me. If it doesn't matter all that much, then why is it something that was almost always brought it up in my interviews?

For context, I'm also from a state school with similar stats to many of the posters (517/4).

Not a good question imo. Answer can be anything from "I wanted to be near my family in my state" to "I'm freaking poor and can't afford a 400K Ivy-League education." The question "Why did you go to so and so?" in the given tone and context seems to imply why didnt you go to a better school and is really off-putting. That type of elitism is just ughh!

 

[Med.Geek]

Not a good question imo. Answer can be anything from "I wanted to be near my family in my state" to "I'm freaking poor and can't afford a 400K Ivy-League education." The question "Why did you go to so and so?" in the given tone and context seems to imply why didnt you go to a better school and is really off-putting. That type of elitism is just ughh!

My go-to answer was always finances, and because my parents didn't really let me leave the state (I was the first to go to college). I dunno, I hope that was sufficient enough to quench their curiosity.

 

[deleted972488]

My go-to answer was always finances, and because my parents didn't really let me leave the state (I was the first to go to college). I dunno, I hope that was sufficient enough to quench their curiosity.

Given your 7 acceptances (with more to come, I'm sure), I want to say your response was fine.

 

[Pluto98]

Ivys and other elite schools give full need based aid generally if you are poor?

 

[u_raptor]

Ivys and other elite schools give full need based aid generally if you are poor?

For some maybe. There is also the lower-middle class that ride the line of making just enough to not warrant FA but usually can't pay for school either.

 

[midnightpig]

anyone else still radio silence pre-II? are they sending out more IIs?

 

[drlarin]

anyone else still radio silence pre-II? are they sending out more IIs?

student on the adcom above said they're done with IIs but I also haven't heard anything since mid July

 

[bluethroat]

it's clip for us boys

 

[maryidafrancis]

does anyone know when the next wave of As/post-II decisions will be sent out?

 

[nicklepickle]

does anyone know when the next wave of As/post-II decisions will be sent out?

If it's anything like previous years it'll likely be Friday, February 14th

 

[deleted994247]

question about financial aid app. I see you need an "empower ID" to complete the institutional app. Is this something you get after accepted?

 

[MD24NY]

question about financial aid app. I see you need an "empower ID" to complete the institutional app. Is this something you get after accepted?

Yes

 

[blurb_123]

Really liked this school. Hoping for some good news at some point in feb, but it seems like pretty stiff competition.

 

[Jhussen18]

Was anyone able to login to the empower self service page with the ID they sent out today?

 

[femmebot]

Was anyone able to login to the empower self service page with the ID they sent out today?

+1. Anyone have any luck? Doesn't work for me.

 

[juliannewman]

question about financial aid app. I see you need an "empower ID" to complete the institutional app. Is this something you get after accepted?

Is that on the fafsa? Where do you see that

 

[lab2018]

+1. Anyone have any luck? Doesn't work for me.

+2 i found the sinai empower login but it required a sinai email address so the credentials didnt work :/

 

[lactoseintolerant]

Any II's recently?

This isn't just specific to Sinai, but wondering if anyone has a running list of schools that interview through Feb.

 

[nicklepickle]

Really liked this school. Hoping for some good news at some point in feb, but it seems like pretty stiff competition.

Me too. I'm praying to any God that might exist. Are you deferred or did you interview recently?

 

[blurb_123]

Me too. I'm praying to any God that might exist. Are you deferred or did you interview recently?

Recent interviewee. We may hear in feb but I’m anticipating getting deferred to March personally.

 

[nicklepickle]

Recent interviewee. We may hear in feb but I’m anticipating getting deferred to March personally.

Well good luck! I'm deferred so I'm anticipating waiting until March or April or even May if I'm being realistic :/

 

[juliannewman]

Well good luck! I'm deferred so I'm anticipating waiting until March or April or even May if I'm being realistic :/

I thought April or May was for wl ppl, I think deferred ppl will get a decision before that

 

[juliannewman]

Hey Everyone,

MS-4 on admissions committee here. I've sporadically posted in this thread. Wanted to catch up with you guys.

Congrats to those accepted. We just received the list of acceptances on our end. From what it looks like around 170 regular track seats were offered in this first wave. From what I remember from last year's data, around 300 seats were offered to regular track applicants and ultimately around 94 matriculated (rest of class matriculated through FlexMed for total of 140). So basically that means if you were deferred I am assuming you can still hold out hope for acceptances as there may be another 100 seats left to offer. The caliber of applicants interviewed are very high and as such many will definitely have multiple acceptances and a lot will choose to go elsewhere.

In terms of admissions, we finished screening all regular track applications last week. Our last interview day will be Feb 14th. I wanted to try to clarify rolling admissions. The admissions committee votes on applicants the following week of your interview. After that meeting the score you receive is basically set. How the dean of admissions ranks applicants after the committee meeting is something I don't know. What I can tell is some of the applicants I interviewed who I gave a near perfect score did not get an offer this round. The ones that I and the other interviewer both gave the best possible scores to received offers. So essentially, it seems the top candidates got the acceptances this round as expected. A lot of these candidates will have offers at equally good schools and we inevitably will lose some of them to the Harvards, Stanfords, Hopkins of the world, etc.

I know the process sucks but if you already have an offer somewhere, congrats you will become a doctor! If you're still waiting for that first acceptance, you still have time as acceptances from many schools go out until April.

Lastly, to address how much a school's name matters. It does and can help you. Step 1 score is the ultimate filter followed by # of clinical rotations honored, letters of rec, and research. Step 2 CK scores are not required to receive interviews for a lot of specialties and at Sinai you have until end of December of application year to take Step 2 CK which by that time you will have received interviews for residencies already. Unfortunately, it is your Step 1 score that will either close or open doors for you. Certain specialities have wider step 1 ranges than others. Plastic surgery will not be as forgiving to a low step 1 score than general surgery would. Both are competitive specialities but plastics is just on another level of competitiveness. However, fields such as internal medicine has a wide range of acceptable step 1 scores with so many programs in the country (over 500!). What I learned from my residency interview season is that the Sinai name definitely got me interviews that I probably would not have (due to a below average step 1 score for field I am applying into). Certain programs just know what they will receive from a Sinai student or a Columbia student. Certain residency program directors gush over the name of Harvard while others don't care as much. What med school you go to will definitely help for the more competitive specialities but I cannot stress it enough, it is your Step 1 score that is the greatest filter for competitive residencies. A 250 Step 1 from Sinai beats a 230 Step 1 from Harvard for plastics. That's just facts.

Good luck to everyone in your future endeavors. I'll try to provide updates more frequently. Sorry that I ramble and write essays, appreciate those who read to the end.

p.s. RIP KOBE!

Do you know if deferred ppl should expect to hear back before or after April/may?

 

[deleted994247]

Is that on the fafsa? Where do you see that

it's here ISMMS Template - Formstack

 

[juliannewman]

it's here ISMMS Template - Formstack

Is this for ppl who’ve gotten in?

 

[deleted994247]

Is this for ppl who’ve gotten in?

yes, but it's accessible to anyone on the website, I'm not sharing some secret link. you can only complete it once u get in, b/c u need an "empower id".

 

[nicklepickle]

I thought April or May was for wl ppl, I think deferred ppl will get a decision before that

Where did you hear that from? I was just guessing based on the Icahn 2017-2018 thread but if you heard something else let me know, I'm dying of anticipation but don't want to get my hopes up.

 

[Jeremy Bearimy]

Pre-II R, complete way back in July

 

[TPWK2024]

R :/

 

[drlarin]

R finally, complete late July

 

[tessellations]

Finally got the pre-II R. WE OUT. Honestly as a woman with a strong interest in EM, this is probs for the best.

 

[The English American]

Pre-II R. Stings a bit since I wrote them a nice love/interest letter, but stings less after matching into my top Texas program this morning

 

[DevinBookerMD]

R

 

[calm_em]

Finally caught the R. Best of luck to everyone still in the running!