2020-2021 Iowa (Carver)

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OOS Alternate List in the low 40s. I've seen previous list movement picks up in May/June. A spot in the 40s is already a gamble, and my classes for another school start June 1st. Any advice or insight on how to plan for last minute decisions?
 
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OOS; Waitlisted, ranked in the 80's.. Makes me wonder a few things

1. How many waitlist spots were offered
2. Do I have a chance?
3. Is that even a valid ^ question given how unusual this cycle is making things for admissions committees
 
ThenotoriousmacG33 said:
OOS; Waitlisted, ranked in the 80's.. Makes me wonder a few things

1. How many waitlist spots were offered
2. Do I have a chance?
3. Is that even a valid ^ question given how unusual this cycle is making things for admissions committees
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I believe they do 50 on the in-state and 100 on the out-of-state waitlist. In previous years they have pulled upwards of 54 from the OOS waitlist. This would normally mean that chances are not the best for you, but I concede no one really knows what the differences this cycle will be.
 
drinkingcoffee said:
I believe they do 50 on the in-state and 100 on the out-of-state waitlist. In previous years they have pulled upwards of 54 from the OOS waitlist. This would normally mean that chances are not the best for you, but I concede no one really knows what the differences this cycle will be.
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Thanks for the honesty. I am honestly just happy to be on the waitlist to begin with.
 
Alternate list OOS high teens...does this mean I will likely (based on past stats) be admitted, but will have to wait until june?
 
Looking at MSAR, it says that in the 2018-2019 cycle, 54 students were accepted from the non-resident alternate list. But also it shows that 54 OOS students matriculated. So were all 54 OOS students that matriculated from the alternate list or am I misinterpreting this?

Also, does anyone know how many were accepted from the OOS WL last cycle? Looking through the thread, I saw someone who said they started in the top 10 in March 2020 and in late May 2020 they had only moved about 4 spots.
 
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Does anyone know what would be a good estimate of how many people get in off of the wait list?
 
wfitz08 said:
Does anyone know what would be a good estimate of how many people get in off of the wait list?
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MSAR
 
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Microtubules said:
I'm not sure if what MSAR shows is accurate for nonresident alternative list. Because MSAR also says that 54 OOS students matriculated. I'm finding it hard to believe that all 54 were from the WL. Maybe they inputted something incorrectly?
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My understanding is that they gave 54 offers of acceptance but not all 54 accepted the offers. So there’s hope hopefully haha
 
I started at #44 on the OOS waitlist, and I am curious to know how others around the middle of the waitlist are processing this...

Based on MSAR, if the waitlist acceptances are split proportionately between IS/OOS, one would expect 43-44 more acceptances for OOS. Although it looks like over 50 people on the OOS waitlist were offered acceptance for the 2017, 2018, and 2019 cycles.

Can those below #50 reasonably hope for an offer of acceptance? Would COVID somehow affect the number of additional acceptances? I have to start improving my resume for reapplication, but maybe I need to plan for quitting whatever I'm doing around July if 50+ people will be offered acceptance. Or am I being naive at this point? 🙁
 
Got the R as well.
This was my moonshot school and I'm glad to have even been considered with my stats not being anywhere near the medians for OOS matriculants.
I just wanted to wish everyone luck no matter where you're going next! You all rocked if they wanted to interview you. 🙂
 
Congrats to everyone who got accepted! For those attending second look day, are you sending a professional photo or a more casual one?
 
Kenken514 said:
Rejection. OOS 517 3.86.
I was rejected post interview last year too
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Your stats are very strong, hang in there! I presume you did not take Biochem or Orgo 1&2 at Junior or Community college and the academic rigor was there for the GPA. That you checked all the boxes for research, clinical/non clinical volunteerism, direct patient contact etc. Medical School is expensive and the application process adds up also, but may want to consider an advisor. MotivateMD is on the lower cost end for reviewing personal statement, secondary apps and practicing and getting direct feedback on mock interviews. Interviewing is hard, feedback is also humbling and hard, but very valued and actionable. Their staff (med students, physicians, surgeons, and current/former Adcoms) are pretty much doing it to give back to the applicants, not the stipend per review which is like $15. You may want to check them out as an avenue for a second set of eyes. Some schools' secondary's are fairly the same so once you have one really set on a topic your can use it multiple times.
 
Does anyone else think it's odd that the MSAR still has the 2019 cycle waitlist acceptance stats (versus 2020)? I was looking on the last year's thread, and it seems like there were fewer acceptances off the waitlist. It might be hard to tell from a thread, but I find it interesting that they didn't update those stats on the MSAR from last year's cycle.
 
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drinkingcoffee said:
Does anyone else think it's odd that the MSAR still has the 2019 cycle waitlist acceptance stats (versus 2020)? I was looking on the last year's thread, and it seems like there were fewer acceptances off the waitlist. It might be hard to tell from a thread, but I find it interesting that they didn't update those stats on the MSAR from last year's cycle. I originally thought I had a good chance of getting off the waitlist, but now am feeling like those old stats could have given me a false sense of hope.
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MSAR doesn’t update until March, so they won’t be able to have the 2020 cycle information until later this month.
 
I know that Carver's pre-clinical curriculum has a tiered grading scale, but does anyone know if these grades are factored into some internal ranking/AOA?
 
TowTrucker12 said:
I know that Carver's pre-clinical curriculum has a tiered grading scale, but does anyone know if these grades are factored into some internal ranking/AOA?
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Not sure if this answers your question or not, but I talked to an M4 recently and asked about the whole internal ranking thing and she said she was not aware of any sort of internal ranking. She said she was sure somewhere they were probably ranked somehow, but this was not something that she ever noticed seeing throughout her residency application process or something that ever really came into play in her experiences at Carver
 
cornfedgurl said:
Not sure if this answers your question or not, but I talked to an M4 recently and asked about the whole internal ranking thing and she said she was not aware of any sort of internal ranking. She said she was sure somewhere they were probably ranked somehow, but this was not something that she ever noticed seeing throughout her residency application process or something that ever really came into play in her experiences at Carver
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Thanks for this! Do you know if the pre-clinical grades factor into AOA consideration?
 
TowTrucker12 said:
Thanks for this! Do you know if the pre-clinical grades factor into AOA consideration?
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Yes they do. Generally our class averages are high 80's to 90's, so the cutoffs for honors are relatively high (92-95%). Not impossible to achieve, but if you want AOA at Carver you will be working hard from the get-go.
 
Has anyone had movement on the alternate list? I have only moved one spot on the IS list. Hoping for at least a little more movement before April 30🙏
 
star67 said:
Can any current students talk about how they feel about the grading system?
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I would personally put it as one of the cons at Carver, at least for the pre-clinicals (haven't gone through clinicals yet). If you are going for AOA/honors it definitely makes pre-clinicals more stressful as the class averages are relatively high (85-90% usually), so you really need to spend your time scouring the slides for every detail if you want max points on the exams. Exams make up most of the grade and usually are pretty few questions (typically 30-45) so every point counts. Thankfully that class vibe is very collaborative, so everyone that I've encountered is very encouraging and the gunners are few and far between. I am of the opinion that not having a P/F curriculum when most schools already do only ends up harming the majority of students on the residency application trail and helps only the top 25% of the class. In the end, I don't think pre-clinical grades matter THAT much, but I think its naïve to think they don't matter at all (it they really didn't matter at all then why have them?). This is my perspective and I know there are a variety of opinions about in in my class.
 
Zen Arcade said:
I would personally put it as one of the cons at Carver, at least for the pre-clinicals (haven't gone through clinicals yet). If you are going for AOA/honors it definitely makes pre-clinicals more stressful as the class averages are relatively high (85-90% usually), so you really need to spend your time scouring the slides for every detail if you want max points on the exams. Exams make up most of the grade and usually are pretty few questions (typically 30-45) so every point counts. Thankfully that class vibe is very collaborative, so everyone that I've encountered is very encouraging and the gunners are few and far between. I am of the opinion that not having a P/F curriculum when most schools already do only ends up harming the majority of students on the residency application trail and helps only the top 25% of the class. In the end, I don't think pre-clinical grades matter THAT much, but I think its naïve to think they don't matter at all (it they really didn't matter at all then why have them?). This is my perspective and I know there are a variety of opinions about in in my class.
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Thank you for this honest assessment! It is one of the main reasons I am hesitant about Carver if I get off the WL. Every student I have asked about this says the same thing-- that nobody cares about grades in preclinical and you learn to ignore scores. It is hard to believe them haha. As you say, somebody must care, as the system would otherwise be P/F.

What is the policy on retakes at Carver? If you fail the exam, can you retake it? If you are allowed, does only the first score count toward your grade?
 
stridermmxxv said:
Thank you for this honest assessment! It is one of the main reasons I am hesitant about Carver if I get off the WL. Every student I have asked about this says the same thing-- that nobody cares about grades in preclinical and you learn to ignore scores. It is hard to believe them haha. As you say, somebody must care, as the system would otherwise be P/F.

What is the policy on retakes at Carver? If you fail the exam, can you retake it? If you are allowed, does only the first score count toward your grade?
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Yeah I heard the same thing from students on interview day/second look and I'm going to be honest its really hard not to care. Maybe some people can do it, but I think most med students are inherently at least somewhat competitive so I think it's important to know yourself. If you went to Carver an would want to be achieving honors you will be working hard.

As far as retakes go I don't think they allow them, but there is a lot of safety nets put in place if you are struggling. Here's a link that details some of the policies: Evaluations, Grades and Promotions | MD Program

I think for most students, simply passing is not too difficult given how high the class averages are on exams. If you are struggling they always encourage you to reach out and set you up with tutoring and individual help.
 
stridermmxxv said:
Thank you for this honest assessment! It is one of the main reasons I am hesitant about Carver if I get off the WL. Every student I have asked about this says the same thing-- that nobody cares about grades in preclinical and you learn to ignore scores. It is hard to believe them haha. As you say, somebody must care, as the system would otherwise be P/F.

What is the policy on retakes at Carver? If you fail the exam, can you retake it? If you are allowed, does only the first score count toward your grade?
Click to expand...
Agree with what zen arcade said. I am also not a fan of pass fail because it just adds more stress to something that does not matter at all except for AOA. I've talked to a few residency directors and they have all said they don't care too much about preclinicals, but it is hard being ok with just passing and not getting honors after spending all of undergrad gunning for straight As. At the end of the day, it does not matter if you are in the top 25% or bottom 25% because everyone (maybe 99% to be realistic) in medical school is going to be a doctor!

Failing an exam does not matter as long as you pass the class. Foundations, Anatomy, and MOHD (the science classes) you need a 70% to pass and these classes are H/NH/P/F. So even if you get a 20 on one exam, as long as you have 70% overall you're good. Disclaimer: Foundations has a 50% minimum on all exams requirement (just so people don't completely slack off on the last exam because foundations is boring af). CAPS and MAS are only pass fail and you need 80% to pass these classes (not that hard at all to get 80).

If you fail a class you would have to retake the class. I am not too sure about how that works because I don't really know anyone that has gone through that. From what I have heard, if you fail a class you basically have to retake it next year so you are kinda held back a year? Not 100% sure but I believe that is what you do. If you end up doing poorly on an exam, the course directors will email you and I've heard they will even get an upperclassman to tutor you through the course for free. The only exam I know you can retake is the OSCE which is the physical exam test in CAPS.

Ps. I am just an M1 so I don't know how exams in clinicals work so I can't really speak about what happens if you fail an exam during clinicals.
 
I saw online that Carver recommends no more than 40% of students get honors or near-honors. With such a high class average is it even harder to get these grades?
 
star67 said:
Does the admin take into account student feedback?
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Absolutely! There's countless opportunities to offer feedback. Every class has its own 'liaison committee' where a group of students presents students questions and concerns about the class and offers advice on what can be improved to the course directors. There are many other opportunities like this.
 
kme243 said:
Agree with what zen arcade said. I am also not a fan of pass fail because it just adds more stress to something that does not matter at all except for AOA. I've talked to a few residency directors and they have all said they don't care too much about preclinicals, but it is hard being ok with just passing and not getting honors after spending all of undergrad gunning for straight As. At the end of the day, it does not matter if you are in the top 25% or bottom 25% because everyone (maybe 99% to be realistic) in medical school is going to be a doctor!

Failing an exam does not matter as long as you pass the class. Foundations, Anatomy, and MOHD (the science classes) you need a 70% to pass and these classes are H/NH/P/F. So even if you get a 20 on one exam, as long as you have 70% overall you're good. Disclaimer: Foundations has a 50% minimum on all exams requirement (just so people don't completely slack off on the last exam because foundations is boring af). CAPS and MAS are only pass fail and you need 80% to pass these classes (not that hard at all to get 80).

If you fail a class you would have to retake the class. I am not too sure about how that works because I don't really know anyone that has gone through that. From what I have heard, if you fail a class you basically have to retake it next year so you are kinda held back a year? Not 100% sure but I believe that is what you do. If you end up doing poorly on an exam, the course directors will email you and I've heard they will even get an upperclassman to tutor you through the course for free. The only exam I know you can retake is the OSCE which is the physical exam test in CAPS.

Ps. I am just an M1 so I don't know how exams in clinicals work so I can't really speak about what happens if you fail an exam during clinicals.
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M3 here. I've talked to some faculty about what happens regarding failing classes (as I was dangerously close to failing Anatomy myself - in the end I got some help and rocked the last exam!). If you miss passing by a few points and it's realistic to make it up by retaking your worst exam, they let you do that. If you bombed the course and missed it by a bunch of points, then you retake the course. It's pretty hard to bomb one course without struggling in the others, so I think most of the people who are really struggling end up retaking the whole year. This is super rare. Most of the class does fine! In the end, preclinical grades don't matter for about 80%-90% of specialties. Just pass them and move on. Most people get honors or near honors in a few and just pass the others. It can be stressful in the moment, but nothing about pre-clinicals is as stressful as your first shelf exam or Step 1 and Step 2. Its a good time to learn how to deal with that stress in a safer environment where the stakes are low! Good luck to you all!
 
Hawk Eye Pierce said:
M3 here. I've talked to some faculty about what happens regarding failing classes (as I was dangerously close to failing Anatomy myself - in the end I got some help and rocked the last exam!). If you miss passing by a few points and it's realistic to make it up by retaking your worst exam, they let you do that. If you bombed the course and missed it by a bunch of points, then you retake the course. It's pretty hard to bomb one course without struggling in the others, so I think most of the people who are really struggling end up retaking the whole year. This is super rare. Most of the class does fine! In the end, preclinical grades don't matter for about 80%-90% of specialties. Just pass them and move on. Most people get honors or near honors in a few and just pass the others. It can be stressful in the moment, but nothing about pre-clinicals is as stressful as your first shelf exam or Step 1 and Step 2. Its a good time to learn how to deal with that stress in a safer environment where the stakes are low! Good luck to you all!
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Thanks for the clarity on preclinical grades, it’s good to hear there’s a low stress environment about it.

As an M3 how did you feel about Step 1 dedicated being after a year of clinical rotations? We’re you able to study as much as you needed before dedicated?
 
BJoverTrapper said:
Thanks for the clarity on preclinical grades, it’s good to hear there’s a low stress environment about it.

As an M3 how did you feel about Step 1 dedicated being after a year of clinical rotations? We’re you able to study as much as you needed before dedicated?
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Step 1 is a bear no matter when you take it. Now that it's pass/fail it probably doesn't matter what part of the curriculum it's in. There is a lot of overlap between step1 and step2. You learn a lot from taking shelf exams. I only know what it's like taking it after clinicals, but I thought it was fine. I got through first aid one time, did 2/3 of Anking, and a lot of Amboss before dedicated. Spent dedicated brushing up on topics and doing Uworld. I had plenty of time to study during dedicated. Hope that answers your question.
 
star67 said:
If you look at the match summary (https://medicine.uiowa.edu/md/sites/medicine.uiowa.edu.md/files/wysiwyg_uploads/Summary Page.pdf). It says 132 people participated in the match but only 119 matched into first year positions. Can someone explain what happened to the remaining? Did they not match/soap? Thank you! Match data makes no sense to me
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I work with some M4's and I know a few that didn't match (which was super surprising to me) or got very few interviews, so one is redoing a few classes and I think taking step 1 again. Match data is still confusing to me too, but I don't entirely know what the others' next actions are going to be outside the one that is redoing some stuff.
 
star67 said:
If you look at the match summary (https://medicine.uiowa.edu/md/sites/medicine.uiowa.edu.md/files/wysiwyg_uploads/Summary Page.pdf). It says 132 people participated in the match but only 119 matched into first year positions. Can someone explain what happened to the remaining? Did they not match/soap? Thank you! Match data makes no sense to me
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132 is the total that participated, 119 matched, 7 matched in soap and the remaining 6 did not is what I understood. Which is surprisingly high. I looked at the match data all the way back to 2010 and 6 not matching is twice the previous worst (3 didn't match). Most years either everyone matched or 1-2 did not match. I am thinking 6 not matching could be because last years cycle was probably messed up with COVID
 
BJoverTrapper said:
I saw online that Carver recommends no more than 40% of students get honors or near-honors. With such a high class average is it even harder to get these grades?
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Hey! I'm a current M1 here, and to my knowledge, there isn't a quota for honors or near-honors. They don't curve, so anyone who gets a pre-specified grade or above gets H/NH. Hope that helps.

Also, regarding preclinical grades... I'd keep in mind that a majority of schools with P/F actually do keep track of internal ranking..

When I committed to Carver, the grading wasn't that big of a deal because of this. I knew lots of schools keep internal ranking anyway.

Also, with Step1 being P/F, preclinical grades may become more important.. who knows. just my 2 cents! 🙂
 
eat.sleep.caffeine. said:
Just an update, I've moved one position on the OOS waitlist! (Low 40s)
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Thanks for sharing!
I’m in the top 10, but haven’t moved yet. Guess it must’ve been someone withdrawing from the waitlist :/
hopefully we start seeing movement by beginning of May
 
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