Duke-NUS GMS

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congrats on those who are accepted! How many of you interviewed in Singapore in Jan? I'm trying to gauge my own chances because I haven't received anything!
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Congratulations everyone on your acceptance!!

Channer and Blacktalon..... I'm right there with you. We still have time, so don't lost hope yet.:xf:
 
FreeAsABird said:
Congratulations everyone on your acceptance!!

Channer and Blacktalon..... I'm right there with you. We still have time, so don't lost hope yet.:xf:
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:xf: ya still trying to hold on to one last scrap of hope here. But I'm interested to know if those who received the acceptance letter yesterday were in our interview batch in Singapore?

Ugh. What are your plans if... :scared::scared: you are not accepted? I haven't really thought of something yet... :(
 
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To be honest, I have no idea. I should probably start finishing grad school applications for non-MD programs, or start looking for a job.

Prostitution might come as a close third place in this list... I guess I have to keep my options open.
 
Hey blacktalon, I didn't intend to disappoint you but I would just like to mention that although those who posted recently about their acceptance are mostly from the US Jan interview, I have a friend who went for the same Jan interview as you in Sg has received her acceptance email, together with another guy from the same interview as well. Having said all that, I am in the same boat as you, channer and freeasabird. I guess I am as anxious as the rest of you although I don't post that often. I was just telling channer in my PM that we should not lose hope since we have yet to receive our rejection letters, and like the admissions team and everyone else said, majority will hear in April. All we can do now is keep our chins up and keep waiting, maybe you will never know,it will be our turn to get accepted in a few weeks time? :) At the same time, we can start to re-strategise and plan what to do for the year off if you plan to reapply. Keep your spirits up! :D
 
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Hi,dukegms, hope you and rest in the SDN can get your acceptance letter. They still had interview ini FEB. 26th.

dukegms said:
Hey blacktalon, I didn't intend to disappoint you but I would just like to mention that although those who posted recently about their acceptance are mostly from the US Jan interview, I have a friend who went for the same Jan interview as you in Sg has received her acceptance email, together with another guy from the same interview as well. Having said all that, I am in the same boat as you, channer and freeasabird. I guess I am as anxious as the rest of you although I don't post that often. I was just telling channer in my PM that we should not lose hope since we have yet to receive our rejection letters, and like the admissions team and everyone else said, majority will hear in April. All we can do now is keep our chins up and keep waiting, maybe you will never know,it will be our turn to get accepted in a few weeks time? :) At the same time, we can start to re-strategise and plan what to do for the year off if you plan to reapply. Keep your spirits up! :D
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I interviewed in Nov last year in singapore..and only got my acceptance email on friday (few days back). So, just want to add that to those still awaiting news from the school, just hold it out till april! :) And all the best!
 
to all those who got in congrats:clap:. And to all those like me who are still waiting well relax as long as we haven't received any letters we still are in the game so be patient and enjoy this time take it as a break before school starts. good luck to all of us:xf:
 
Congrats to everyone who got in! To those waiting for the good news, good luck! :)

I have not even gone for my interview yet. I submitted my secondary app in January and I haven't been asked for an interview since. I am beginning to lose hope already but I'm not ready to say die yet. Anyone in the same situation??? :)
 
Cherriz said:
Congrats to everyone who got in! To those waiting for the good news, good luck! :)

I have not even gone for my interview yet. I submitted my secondary app in January and I haven't been asked for an interview since. I am beginning to lose hope already but I'm not ready to say die yet. Anyone in the same situation??? :)
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Hi Cherriz,

I haven't even got my MCAT yet :). It will be released within the next 2 days, and after that I think I will have an idea whether I will get an interview or not.

I've been keeping count and so far from this thread I know there are 15 people already accepted to the class of 2013. Congrats for those accepted, be a good doc Ok!

The rest of us, just hope for the best.
 
Hi everyone who are waiting for your results or interviews,

So I have decided to accept the offer so I will see most of you in the summer! :)

I am going to be really realistic with this reply to the people who are still waiting for a response. :eek:

1) I know its stressful waiting for your results but it will not come to you any quicker. So keep yourself busy!!! Study for your exams, play some table tennis, read a book, go watch Slumdog millionaire :)

2) If you don't hear from them in April (eg. you applied really late or sadly rejected), it is not the end of the world! It is sad initially but I would apply again and do it EARLY! (eg in September/October NOT December or January). It shows real character. :thumbup:

3) Understand your past application just in case if you don't get in this year. Get some research experience in the summer ,travel (see the world), volunteer (not just at the hospital)... Like I used to volunteer in a museum working with kids. Show your cultural side! Work on your interpersonal skills. Learn from your experiences. Even take the year off and discover yourself.

Think whether you show your passion and enthusiasm during the interview. Were you coherent? Did you stand out? ;)

4) Yes MCAT and your GPA are important but I really think its the whole application that really counts. Eg. your essays, your motivations, your passion to discover (research), your morals.

I really think your essays matter! Especially on why you want to go to this school and become a clincian. :confused:

5) Since it is a graduate medical school, you may want to consider doing a Master's first to get some valuable experience on running your very own project! Trust me an undergraduate project is completely different then a Master's project!:thumbup:

Anyways I wish you all the best in the upcoming month and hope to see you in the summer!

Onestep
 
to all those who received their letters on the 27th of Feb can I just ask when is the deadline by which you must accept the offer?
Thanks in advance.
 
dukegms said:
Hey blacktalon, I didn't intend to disappoint you but I would just like to mention that although those who posted recently about their acceptance are mostly from the US Jan interview, I have a friend who went for the same Jan interview as you in Sg has received her acceptance email, together with another guy from the same interview as well. Having said all that, I am in the same boat as you, channer and freeasabird. I guess I am as anxious as the rest of you although I don't post that often. I was just telling channer in my PM that we should not lose hope since we have yet to receive our rejection letters, and like the admissions team and everyone else said, majority will hear in April. All we can do now is keep our chins up and keep waiting, maybe you will never know,it will be our turn to get accepted in a few weeks time? :) At the same time, we can start to re-strategise and plan what to do for the year off if you plan to reapply. Keep your spirits up! :D
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Haha, I was afraid of that! Intellectually, I know that they only sent acceptances to the top candidates and most will hear from them in April. That said, it is really hard not to feel a little disappointed that I wasn't one of them. I have to control myself not to keep calling Tammie and asking her about my status!

Well, we can always hope that we will be accepted in April, but then again, maybe it's time to start on a back-up strategy. Nothing seem to interest me though. Maybe I'll do my PhD after all. Will you be reapplying? I'm not sure if I want to put my life on hold for another year to get another shot at Duke. :confused:
 
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biomd said:
to all those who received their letters on the 27th of Feb can I just ask when is the deadline by which you must accept the offer?
Thanks in advance.
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The deadline to accept the offer is 12 march. ^_^
 
chocoholic85 said:
The deadline to accept the offer is 12 march. ^_^
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but they said you can ask for an extension if you haven't received your financial aid package yet - so some people might not get back to them with final decisions by March 12, just FYI
 
Does anyone have any inside information on when the next admissions committee meeting is going to be held? The last time, it seemed like they met before the last date of acceptance (if hopeful1985's post is correct). Is it safe to assume that the 12th will be the next date letters will go out?

Hope everyone is having a smashing good week!:thumbup:
 
FreeAsABird said:
Does anyone have any inside information on when the next admissions committee meeting is going to be held? The last time, it seemed like they met before the last date of acceptance (if hopeful1985's post is correct). Is it safe to assume that the 12th will be the next date letters will go out?

Hope everyone is having a smashing good week!:thumbup:
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Well I sent my final transcripts to Tammie and called to see if she received it, and took the opportunity to ask her abt the next adcom meeting. She said it is confidential info, but mentioned that they have started sending out rejection letters already, so if you didn't receive anything, it's good news. Not great news of course, but good. :smuggrin:
 
BlackTalon said:
Well I sent my final transcripts to Tammie and called to see if she received it, and took the opportunity to ask her abt the next adcom meeting. She said it is confidential info, but mentioned that they have started sending out rejection letters already, so if you didn't receive anything, it's good news. Not great news of course, but good. :smuggrin:
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Oh man that's one scary news to hear, hope none of us here on SDN gets those letters so soon! Anyway blacktalon when was your correspondance with Tammie? Last week or just today?
 
dukegms said:
Oh man that's one scary news to hear, hope none of us here on SDN gets those letters so soon! Anyway blacktalon when was your correspondance with Tammie? Last week or just today?
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It was today. Tammie said that they send out rejections by snail mail, and acceptances by email followed by post.
 
Got my MCAT result last week. It was not bad and I'm happy with it :).

I've sent it to them and hopefully it is good enough to get me an interview spot, and I hope they don't simply forget about us late takers.
 
Bioinformatics said:
Got my MCAT result last week. It was not bad and I'm happy with it :).

I've sent it to them and hopefully it is good enough to get me an interview spot, and I hope they don't simply forget about us late takers.
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Congratulations on a great MCAT score!


Oh man.... I wish they sent rejection letters by email too... that way it will be over fast enough, instead of the unnecessary waiting and worrying. Yikes!

Thanks for the heads-up Blacktalon!
 
FreeAsABird said:
Congratulations on a great MCAT score!


Oh man.... I wish they sent rejection letters by email too... that way it will be over fast enough, instead of the unnecessary waiting and worrying. Yikes!

Thanks for the heads-up Blacktalon!
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Bioinformatics, congrats on your excellent MCAT score!


FreeAsABird, you are welcome. I am nervously waiting for the results as well. At least they should be out early April, which is in a few weeks
 
I have a friend who got her rejection letter by email. She got it last January. So I think they do send out rejections by email, just not sure if they're still doing that until now/

Still keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed!!!
 
hi all,

Congratulations for all who have been accepted in Duke-NUS for class of 2013.

i think it will be a good idea to set up a facebook group for Class 2013, it will help all to know each other better.

Congratulations for all!
 
adrianus said:
hi all,

Congratulations for all who have been accepted in Duke-NUS for class of 2013.

i think it will be a good idea to set up a facebook group for Class 2013, it will help all to know each other better.

Congratulations for all!
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Theres actually a group on facebook set up by someone already for the class of 2013. You can search for 'Duke-NUS GMS Class of 2013'.
 
Well I am keeping my :xf: for you guys.

Time is flying fast and sooner then you know it you will get your results!
 
I personally think that given the limited vacancies for the M.D programme in Duke-NS, its sad that almost half if not all students are from overseas.

Where are all the true Singaporean? Is there a bias towards Singaporean in the admission process?
 
ntusmu said:
I personally think that given the limited vacancies for the M.D programme in Duke-NS, its sad that almost half if not all students are from overseas.

Where are all the true Singaporean? Is there a bias towards Singaporean in the admission process?
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I don't think this is true. If you look at the third graph down in the following link:

http://www.duke-nus.edu.sg/index.php?Corporate/Watch%20Us%20Grow

You can see that more than half (26 out of 48) of all admitted students in 2008 were Singaporean.

I'm not sure what the trends are this year, but please bear in mind that:

(1) SDN is a skewed sample of applicants, and
(2) All the admission offers have not gone out yet.
 
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ACCEPTED!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it.

*cue gratuitous smilies*

:clap::biglove::banana::banana::biglove::clap:

Awaiting financial aid....how has everyone else's financial aid package been?

As always, good luck to those still waiting...







...its coming.
 
Guys/girls
I am new to this thread, and to studentdoctor. I am a mature student in my early 30s with a PhD. I have a question. What are the financial packages like? I went through their FAQs and they say


"I do not have enough savings to support my studies at the Duke-NUS. Can I still apply to the Duke-NUS?
The Admission Committee does not take into account candidate’s financial ability to support his/her studies at the Duke-NUS during the selection process."


- So how much support do they provide? Total costs for 5 years just for tution seems to be around USD 120,000....? How much would I need to get across, 20k, 50k, 70k ??

Thanks everyone in advance
 
to channer a big congratulations :thumbup:. So when did you receive the email or letter from duke nus? And when is the latest date to accept your offer? Thanks in advance.
 
Anyone has an estimate of Singapore Doctor's average income? I got a number of around $50,000 USD per year from somewhere (GP? not sure), but I think it was quite outdated. If that is the case, it is quite low, isn't it? At least compared to U.S.?
 
Thanks. So the salary is about half of U.S. physicians...

Actually, I am failing to see the point of Duke-NUS. It seems the school is not pushing the graduate M.D. to research sector. (only 20% are allowed to do phD). Why didn't the government just expand original NUS's MBBS program if they want more doctors? I just have a hard time envisioning the future life of a Duke-NUS graduate. Wouldn't they be in a disadvantageous position since most doctors in Singapore are graduated with MBBS? Do they even need more doctors in Singapore?
 
channer said:
ACCEPTED!!!!!!!!

I can't believe it.

*cue gratuitous smilies*

:clap::biglove::banana::banana::biglove::clap:

Awaiting financial aid....how has everyone else's financial aid package been?

As always, good luck to those still waiting...







...its coming.
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CONGRATULATIONS!!! U must be elated! I'm curious to know when you received the acceptance letter though... ;)
 
are these singapore dollars or us dollars
 
wrongperson said:
Thanks. So the salary is about half of U.S. physicians...

Actually, I am failing to see the point of Duke-NUS. It seems the school is not pushing the graduate M.D. to research sector. (only 20% are allowed to do phD). Why didn't the government just expand original NUS's MBBS program if they want more doctors? I just have a hard time envisioning the future life of a Duke-NUS graduate. Wouldn't they be in a disadvantageous position since most doctors in Singapore are graduated with MBBS? Do they even need more doctors in Singapore?
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Well, the school is not FORCING anyone into research, but that doesn't mean they are not trying to push clinicians into research. Bear in mind that research experience and interest is an important factor of the acceptance process, and all students undergo a year of full-time research. In other words, there is already a predisposition towards research.

Yes, only 20% (i'm not sure of the figure though) get to do an MD/PhD, but I'm sure that the PhD is not required for research. From my hospital attachment experience, most consultants do some form of research or another, and most don't have PhDs. Therefore the number of MD/PhD candidates would not be a good measure of the school's focus on research.

I feel there are several reasons Singapore is not simply expanding the MBBS program:

1. Duke-NUS is a postgraduate medical school. Most matriculants have done some sort of research in their undergraduate years, and the school appears to be research-oriented. This gives a fair bit of exposure to research, which the undergraduate MBBS programme doesn't.

2. As mentioned, Duke tries to take in people interested in becoming clinician-scientists. YLL has no such aspiration IMO.

3. Not relevant to research, but important IMO nonetheless. From my experience, a significant portion of the MBBS students regret their decision to do medicine after a few years in medical school. Compared to reality, most people have a vastly different idea of what doctors do, and this is a really tough decision to make especially at a tender age of 18. From what I can see, the applicants to Duke-NUS are much more mature and clear on what they are getting into.

4. I disagree that Duke-NUS graduates would be at a disadvantage simply because they possess a MD instead of MBBS. From what I understand, they go through the same MBBS exams as the NUS students. Furthermore, the student-faculty ratio is much lower than YLL. If you seen a Duke-NUS student compared to a YLL student during their clinicals in the hospital, you will be able to see a large difference in the way they think and act. I'm not putting down YLL students - I'm just calling it they way I see it. Lastly, the senior doctors I spoke to seem to have high expectations of Duke-NUS, and that is something we (well, not me, but the matriculants) will have to live up to.
 
wow singapore physicians make significantly less than the us counterparts then
 
BlackTalon said:
Well, the school is not FORCING anyone into research, but that doesn't mean they are not trying to push clinicians into research. Bear in mind that research experience and interest is an important factor of the acceptance process, and all students undergo a year of full-time research. In other words, there is already a predisposition towards research.

Yes, only 20% (i'm not sure of the figure though) get to do an MD/PhD, but I'm sure that the PhD is not required for research. From my hospital attachment experience, most consultants do some form of research or another, and most don't have PhDs. Therefore the number of MD/PhD candidates would not be a good measure of the school's focus on research.

I feel there are several reasons Singapore is not simply expanding the MBBS program:

1. Duke-NUS is a postgraduate medical school. Most matriculants have done some sort of research in their undergraduate years, and the school appears to be research-oriented. This gives a fair bit of exposure to research, which the undergraduate MBBS programme doesn't.

2. As mentioned, Duke tries to take in people interested in becoming clinician-scientists. YLL has no such aspiration IMO.

3. Not relevant to research, but important IMO nonetheless. From my experience, a significant portion of the MBBS students regret their decision to do medicine after a few years in medical school. Compared to reality, most people have a vastly different idea of what doctors do, and this is a really tough decision to make especially at a tender age of 18. From what I can see, the applicants to Duke-NUS are much more mature and clear on what they are getting into.

4. I disagree that Duke-NUS graduates would be at a disadvantage simply because they possess a MD instead of MBBS. From what I understand, they go through the same MBBS exams as the NUS students. Furthermore, the student-faculty ratio is much lower than YLL. If you seen a Duke-NUS student compared to a YLL student during their clinicals in the hospital, you will be able to see a large difference in the way they think and act. I'm not putting down YLL students - I'm just calling it they way I see it. Lastly, the senior doctors I spoke to seem to have high expectations of Duke-NUS, and that is something we (well, not me, but the matriculants) will have to live up to.
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Hi BlackTalon:

Guess from your post you must be a fellow Singaporean.

I think NUS is one of the programs with undergraduate level entry, i.e. from junior college students. I notice the other commonwealth universtiies from UK and Australia already have graduate entry programs too, and there is starting to be a shift towards it.

As a matter of curiosity, what will your options be if you do not (just IF only, you look like a stellar applicant, and you will get in for sure :D) get in this time round. I actually attended the first round of interviews @ Duke-NUS in November, and I think I would most likely be staring at a rejection. That being said, rejection is not a totally bad news to me because I will be applying to Australian universities (targeting Uni of Queensland) and my MCAT score is in the comfortable range. And if I do go on to Australia and pursue my dreams, I will most likely stay on in Australia. I do have relatives in Australia, and frankly, Australia ranks amongst the most enjoyable places to live in. As it is, the closure of one doors lead to the opening of others.

I am actually not surprised if expectations of mature students are higher. Undergraduate medical programs last 5-6 years, whilst graduate level entries typically last 4 years, even for Commonwealth universities. Thus, the academic expectations are there.

Frankly, I do think that an MBBS (Honors) program offered in typical commonwealth universities is somewhat equivalent to the MD program in Duke or Duke-NUS in terms of both research and clinical focuses. I have researched on MBBS (Honors) programs and found that they require students to do research, culminating in an Honors thesis. Students will embark on their research project from their third year, and it is not unusual for them to span their research project until their fourth year, effectively spending more than one year on their research project. Furthermore, the clinical exposure is quite robust at least for the MBBS (Honours) programs I have seen because students go to the hospital from day one of their medical school. In a way, I do think that some of the MBBS (Honours) program have a slight advantage over the Duke-NUS/Duke MD program because 1) Longer time (more than one year) spent doing research 2) More clinical exposure

In fact on the clinical exposure part, you may find the views of certain leading doctors interesting. You may be familiar with Dr Lee Wei Ling, director of National Neuroscience Institute, and daughter of our premier, Mr Lee Kuan Yew. She highlighted her concerns that the Duke-NUS students may not have the level of clinical experience as compared with the YLLSOM students who have three years of that. I couldn't find the actual article, but you can find Dr Lee Wei Ling's views in reproduced in this blog->
http://takchek.blogspot.com/2006/11/lee-wei-lings-take-on-biomedical.html

As for me, either outcomes will work for me. It seems my company is affected by the credit crunch and current recession, and there are less projects now. The recession came at such a fortunate timing when I plan to go back to school! That being said, I am a bit of a policy wonk and I have been monitoring our healthcare policies on and off. Now, they are talking about allowing patients to use Medisave for treatment overseas. And years earlier, they expanded the list of recognized medical degrees for registration of licenses to practise. A disconcerting question is if this would lead to the over-supply of doctors. However, the more pertinent question is if we can recover from this current recession. It is quite scary listening to the speech by this Mr Leong Sze Hian about the housing situation in Singapore.
http://singaporeenquirer.sg/?p=370

You may be familiar with Mr Leong Sze Hian, a President of the Society of Financial Professionals. He always writes letters to the Straits Times forums.
 
Hi all - Thanks for the well wishes.

I was notified on Monday the 17th, in the evening (Singapore time) by email. I have until the 27th to accept the offer.

I'm kind of annoyed about this short deadline. Is there anyone out there who was still waiting to hear from other schools when they got accepted? Can you defer your decision?
 
TrueSPorean said:
Guess from your post you must be a fellow Singaporean.

I think NUS is one of the programs with undergraduate level entry, i.e. from junior college students. I notice the other commonwealth universtiies from UK and Australia already have graduate entry programs too, and there is starting to be a shift towards it.
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Yes, as a matter of fact I am Singaporean. Traditionally, the MBBS (UK) programme is undergraduate entry and the MD (US) programme is graduate. But of course, the lines are becoming blurred. Some Australian programmes are graduate entry but gives an MBBS degree. Sydney is an example. You are right in that there appears to be a shift towards graduate programmes. I guess that is suggestive of the merits of graduate programmes versus undergrad.

TrueSPorean said:
As a matter of curiosity, what will your options be if you do not (just IF only, you look like a stellar applicant, and you will get in for sure :D) get in this time round. I actually attended the first round of interviews @ Duke-NUS in November, and I think I would most likely be staring at a rejection. That being said, rejection is not a totally bad news to me because I will be applying to Australian universities (targeting Uni of Queensland) and my MCAT score is in the comfortable range. And if I do go on to Australia and pursue my dreams, I will most likely stay on in Australia. I do have relatives in Australia, and frankly, Australia ranks amongst the most enjoyable places to live in. As it is, the closure of one doors lead to the opening of others.
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Well, I think you are being polite. My GPA and MCAT scores are nothing spectacular, and I only did a year or so of research, but have no publications. I interviewed in Jan, and frankly, I think I will be staring at a rejection. :(

To answer your question, I have no firm alternate plans should I be rejected. Medicine is pretty much the only career that interests me. It is hard to explain, but I'll try. Medicine appeals to me in many ways - intellectually, traditionally (I love things rooted in traditions, but are continuously improving themselves with the latest technology), problem-solving, the noblity of it (yes, I'm idealistic) and to a much lesser extent, prestige. I suppose I could pursue a PhD or some other career, but from what I can see, they only satisfy a few components but not all that medicine can. Of course, they usually pay better than medicine, but we are all going into medicine for the love, right? :D I guess my alternative would be a toss-up between PhD (looking at the DSO PhD scholarship) or applying to Australian med schools. I don't have any relatives in Aus, but I heard nice things about how good a place it is to live. Then again, my family is residing here, and I really hate to leave them. Now you understand why I'm so nervous about the results of my application: I have alot riding in it.

TrueSPorean said:
I am actually not surprised if expectations of mature students are higher. Undergraduate medical programs last 5-6 years, whilst graduate level entries typically last 4 years, even for Commonwealth universities. Thus, the academic expectations are there.
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Actually, if you consider the undergraduate portion of GMS, then it takes 8 years (or 7) to get an MD, compared to 6 for YLL. But I agree that having a bachelors, the faculty would have higher academic expectations of their students.

TrueSPorean said:
Frankly, I do think that an MBBS (Honors) program offered in typical commonwealth universities is somewhat equivalent to the MD program in Duke or Duke-NUS in terms of both research and clinical focuses. I have researched on MBBS (Honors) programs and found that they require students to do research, culminating in an Honors thesis. Students will embark on their research project from their third year, and it is not unusual for them to span their research project until their fourth year, effectively spending more than one year on their research project. Furthermore, the clinical exposure is quite robust at least for the MBBS (Honours) programs I have seen because students go to the hospital from day one of their medical school. In a way, I do think that some of the MBBS (Honours) program have a slight advantage over the Duke-NUS/Duke MD program because 1) Longer time (more than one year) spent doing research 2) More clinical exposure
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I'm not sure about the YLL, but my friends from certain Australian Med Schools have the option of doing an additional year of research, write a thesis (similar to an FYP in local uni) and be awarded an additional bachelor of biomedical science degree. One question I would like to ask is regarding the kind of research they do. I have no knowledge of this, so this is speculation on my part. But seeing that Duke students are post-graduate, I would assume their research to be of a higher level to the undergraduate students. Not better, nor more important, just a different level. In your opinion, would that be the case?

I didn't know that YLL student receive clinical exposure from day 1. Are you sure about this? From what I know, they attend lectures on basic sciences for the first few years and start getting clinical exposure after that.

Lastly, I would like to stress that I am making no judgements on the quality of doctors produced by YLL and Duke. Having worked with doctors here (graduates of YLL), I can say that they are all top-notch. Whether Duke-NUS can match or better them, by virtue of the postgrad entry, research, lower student-faculty ratio, etc. remains to be seen. IMO, however, I feel quite strongly that committing to such a long road at the age of 18 is not easy. A number of doctors from YLL ultimately regret their decision. Of course, this is a very small sample size and is anecdotal evidence. When I asked them if they would do it again, some of them said they would not. But when the same question was posed to friends in the US, all of them replied that the road is long and tough, but they didn't regret choosing this path. That extra years do make a difference, IMO.

TrueSPorean said:
In fact on the clinical exposure part, you may find the views of certain leading doctors interesting. You may be familiar with Dr Lee Wei Ling, director of National Neuroscience Institute, and daughter of our premier, Mr Lee Kuan Yew. She highlighted her concerns that the Duke-NUS students may not have the level of clinical experience as compared with the YLLSOM students who have three years of that. I couldn't find the actual article, but you can find Dr Lee Wei Ling's views in reproduced in this blog->
http://takchek.blogspot.com/2006/11/lee-wei-lings-take-on-biomedical.html
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Interesting point. Personally, I am not up to date on such matters :oops: but prefer to experience it and see for myself. From my impression, I feel that the clinical skills of Duke students are not lagging behind those of YLL. Duke students start clinicals from year 2 to 4 (that's 3 years, but minus 1 for research), compared to YLL with 3 years. (I believe you mentioned YLL students start clinicals from day1? Does that mean they do 2 years of research?) Then again, the first batch of Duke students have not graduated yet, and I guess we have to wait till then to make judgment.

TrueSPorean said:
As for me, either outcomes will work for me. It seems my company is affected by the credit crunch and current recession, and there are less projects now. The recession came at such a fortunate timing when I plan to go back to school! That being said, I am a bit of a policy wonk and I have been monitoring our healthcare policies on and off. Now, they are talking about allowing patients to use Medisave for treatment overseas. And years earlier, they expanded the list of recognized medical degrees for registration of licenses to practise. A disconcerting question is if this would lead to the over-supply of doctors. However, the more pertinent question is if we can recover from this current recession. It is quite scary listening to the speech by this Mr Leong Sze Hian about the housing situation in Singapore.
http://singaporeenquirer.sg/?p=370

You may be familiar with Mr Leong Sze Hian, a President of the Society of Financial Professionals. He always writes letters to the Straits Times forums.
Click to expand...

Haha, my grasp of local news is no where near your level. I do believe that we are starting to see signs that there is an overpopulation of doctors, but not distributed evenly over all specialties. But I hear that doctors are still in demand, so don't worry!

If I remember my economics module right, we will definitely pull of the recession. Question is... when? And at what cost?

This has been an interesting and informative discussion! :thumbup:
 
BlackTalon said:
Yes, as a matter of fact I am Singaporean. Traditionally, the MBBS (UK) programme is undergraduate entry and the MD (US) programme is graduate. But of course, the lines are becoming blurred. Some Australian programmes are graduate entry but gives an MBBS degree. Sydney is an example. You are right in that there appears to be a shift towards graduate programmes. I guess that is suggestive of the merits of graduate programmes versus undergrad.



Well, I think you are being polite. My GPA and MCAT scores are nothing spectacular, and I only did a year or so of research, but have no publications. I interviewed in Jan, and frankly, I think I will be staring at a rejection. :(

To answer your question, I have no firm alternate plans should I be rejected. Medicine is pretty much the only career that interests me. It is hard to explain, but I'll try. Medicine appeals to me in many ways - intellectually, traditionally (I love things rooted in traditions, but are continuously improving themselves with the latest technology), problem-solving, the noblity of it (yes, I'm idealistic) and to a much lesser extent, prestige. I suppose I could pursue a PhD or some other career, but from what I can see, they only satisfy a few components but not all that medicine can. Of course, they usually pay better than medicine, but we are all going into medicine for the love, right? :D I guess my alternative would be a toss-up between PhD (looking at the DSO PhD scholarship) or applying to Australian med schools. I don't have any relatives in Aus, but I heard nice things about how good a place it is to live. Then again, my family is residing here, and I really hate to leave them. Now you understand why I'm so nervous about the results of my application: I have alot riding in it.



Actually, if you consider the undergraduate portion of GMS, then it takes 8 years (or 7) to get an MD, compared to 6 for YLL. But I agree that having a bachelors, the faculty would have higher academic expectations of their students.



I'm not sure about the YLL, but my friends from certain Australian Med Schools have the option of doing an additional year of research, write a thesis (similar to an FYP in local uni) and be awarded an additional bachelor of biomedical science degree. One question I would like to ask is regarding the kind of research they do. I have no knowledge of this, so this is speculation on my part. But seeing that Duke students are post-graduate, I would assume their research to be of a higher level to the undergraduate students. Not better, nor more important, just a different level. In your opinion, would that be the case?

I didn't know that YLL student receive clinical exposure from day 1. Are you sure about this? From what I know, they attend lectures on basic sciences for the first few years and start getting clinical exposure after that.

Lastly, I would like to stress that I am making no judgements on the quality of doctors produced by YLL and Duke. Having worked with doctors here (graduates of YLL), I can say that they are all top-notch. Whether Duke-NUS can match or better them, by virtue of the postgrad entry, research, lower student-faculty ratio, etc. remains to be seen. IMO, however, I feel quite strongly that committing to such a long road at the age of 18 is not easy. A number of doctors from YLL ultimately regret their decision. Of course, this is a very small sample size and is anecdotal evidence. When I asked them if they would do it again, some of them said they would not. But when the same question was posed to friends in the US, all of them replied that the road is long and tough, but they didn't regret choosing this path. That extra years do make a difference, IMO.



Interesting point. Personally, I am not up to date on such matters :oops: but prefer to experience it and see for myself. From my impression, I feel that the clinical skills of Duke students are not lagging behind those of YLL. Duke students start clinicals from year 2 to 4 (that's 3 years, but minus 1 for research), compared to YLL with 3 years. (I believe you mentioned YLL students start clinicals from day1? Does that mean they do 2 years of research?) Then again, the first batch of Duke students have not graduated yet, and I guess we have to wait till then to make judgment.



Haha, my grasp of local news is no where near your level. I do believe that we are starting to see signs that there is an overpopulation of doctors, but not distributed evenly over all specialties. But I hear that doctors are still in demand, so don't worry!

If I remember my economics module right, we will definitely pull of the recession. Question is... when? And at what cost?

This has been an interesting and informative discussion! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Sorry just to clarify, the clinical experience from day one that I was talking about was in reference to the overseas MBBS programs. The MBBS (Honors) programs that I was referring to are the four year postgraduate entry types. And they have additional courses to equip the student with basic research skills.

As far as I know, YLLSOM students don't do their clinicals from Day 1. For the other overseas universities (postgrad entry), yes.

As for grasp of local news, I have to be familiar with them due to the requirement of my current job. I work in the pharmaceutical industry, and my work requires a huge dose of pharma-economics and economics, besides having to be familiar with the scientific aspects. Of course, I need to analyse our local economy in its relation to the pharmaceutical industry. However, if my job has no such requirement, I would equally be in the dark as well! :)~~~
 
Last edited:
BlackTalon said:
Yes, as a matter of fact I am Singaporean. Traditionally, the MBBS (UK) programme is undergraduate entry and the MD (US) programme is graduate. But of course, the lines are becoming blurred. Some Australian programmes are graduate entry but gives an MBBS degree. Sydney is an example. You are right in that there appears to be a shift towards graduate programmes. I guess that is suggestive of the merits of graduate programmes versus undergrad.



Well, I think you are being polite. My GPA and MCAT scores are nothing spectacular, and I only did a year or so of research, but have no publications. I interviewed in Jan, and frankly, I think I will be staring at a rejection. :(

To answer your question, I have no firm alternate plans should I be rejected. Medicine is pretty much the only career that interests me. It is hard to explain, but I'll try. Medicine appeals to me in many ways - intellectually, traditionally (I love things rooted in traditions, but are continuously improving themselves with the latest technology), problem-solving, the noblity of it (yes, I'm idealistic) and to a much lesser extent, prestige. I suppose I could pursue a PhD or some other career, but from what I can see, they only satisfy a few components but not all that medicine can. Of course, they usually pay better than medicine, but we are all going into medicine for the love, right? :D I guess my alternative would be a toss-up between PhD (looking at the DSO PhD scholarship) or applying to Australian med schools. I don't have any relatives in Aus, but I heard nice things about how good a place it is to live. Then again, my family is residing here, and I really hate to leave them. Now you understand why I'm so nervous about the results of my application: I have alot riding in it.



Actually, if you consider the undergraduate portion of GMS, then it takes 8 years (or 7) to get an MD, compared to 6 for YLL. But I agree that having a bachelors, the faculty would have higher academic expectations of their students.



I'm not sure about the YLL, but my friends from certain Australian Med Schools have the option of doing an additional year of research, write a thesis (similar to an FYP in local uni) and be awarded an additional bachelor of biomedical science degree. One question I would like to ask is regarding the kind of research they do. I have no knowledge of this, so this is speculation on my part. But seeing that Duke students are post-graduate, I would assume their research to be of a higher level to the undergraduate students. Not better, nor more important, just a different level. In your opinion, would that be the case?

I didn't know that YLL student receive clinical exposure from day 1. Are you sure about this? From what I know, they attend lectures on basic sciences for the first few years and start getting clinical exposure after that.

Lastly, I would like to stress that I am making no judgements on the quality of doctors produced by YLL and Duke. Having worked with doctors here (graduates of YLL), I can say that they are all top-notch. Whether Duke-NUS can match or better them, by virtue of the postgrad entry, research, lower student-faculty ratio, etc. remains to be seen. IMO, however, I feel quite strongly that committing to such a long road at the age of 18 is not easy. A number of doctors from YLL ultimately regret their decision. Of course, this is a very small sample size and is anecdotal evidence. When I asked them if they would do it again, some of them said they would not. But when the same question was posed to friends in the US, all of them replied that the road is long and tough, but they didn't regret choosing this path. That extra years do make a difference, IMO.



Interesting point. Personally, I am not up to date on such matters :oops: but prefer to experience it and see for myself. From my impression, I feel that the clinical skills of Duke students are not lagging behind those of YLL. Duke students start clinicals from year 2 to 4 (that's 3 years, but minus 1 for research), compared to YLL with 3 years. (I believe you mentioned YLL students start clinicals from day1? Does that mean they do 2 years of research?) Then again, the first batch of Duke students have not graduated yet, and I guess we have to wait till then to make judgment.



Haha, my grasp of local news is no where near your level. I do believe that we are starting to see signs that there is an overpopulation of doctors, but not distributed evenly over all specialties. But I hear that doctors are still in demand, so don't worry!

If I remember my economics module right, we will definitely pull of the recession. Question is... when? And at what cost?

This has been an interesting and informative discussion! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Regarding the Bachelor of Biomedical Science degree, it is one of those double degree programs intercalated with the MBBS program. The research years for MBBS (Honors) is done within the four year span of an MBBS program, it is not the same as a Bachelor of Biomedical Science intercalated degree.

One can even do a Bachelor of Arts intercalated with the MBBS degree.
http://www.oztrekk.com/programs/medicine/UG/queensland.php
 
blacktalon and truesporean have faith don't give up. Why would you guys even think about being rejected. I too have not received my acceptance from duke nus and that is the key thing to remember if you're going to wait for anything then let that thing be an acceptance offer and not a rejection. If anything I would like to believe that our acceptances are in the mail and that they may be taking a little longer to get to us as they can't decide the level of financial aid to offer us. So don't worry acceptances are on their way this I promise you.:D
 
channer said:
Hi all - Thanks for the well wishes.

I was notified on Monday the 17th, in the evening (Singapore time) by email. I have until the 27th to accept the offer.

I'm kind of annoyed about this short deadline. Is there anyone out there who was still waiting to hear from other schools when they got accepted? Can you defer your decision?
Click to expand...

CONGRATS ON YOUR ACCEPTANCE! :D

did you get your financial aid package yet? i was able to delay my deadline until i received that information...
 
biomd said:
blacktalon and truesporean have faith don't give up. Why would you guys even think about being rejected. I too have not received my acceptance from duke nus and that is the key thing to remember if you're going to wait for anything then let that thing be an acceptance offer and not a rejection. If anything I would like to believe that our acceptances are in the mail and that they may be taking a little longer to get to us as they can't decide the level of financial aid to offer us. So don't worry acceptances are on their way this I promise you.:D
Click to expand...


Wow, that's a very optimistic look on things! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Thanks for your support! I guesstimated that they sent out a third (17) of their places, and there are another 33 to go. So, logically, we still stand a chance, but it is a little discouraging sometimes that we haven't heard from them yet. Then again, nothing we can do except wait :xf:
 
BlackTalon said:
Wow, that's a very optimistic look on things! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Thanks for your support! I guesstimated that they sent out a third (17) of their places, and there are another 33 to go. So, logically, we still stand a chance, but it is a little discouraging sometimes that we haven't heard from them yet. Then again, nothing we can do except wait :xf:
Click to expand...

Actually they wouldn't send out exactly 50 acceptances, especially when the med school application season is still going on. They usually send more than 50 acceptances. The season is still going on at the US side, and has started for Australian universities. IDP has hosted a Medschool and Health sciences fair like 2 weeks ago.

For my case, being prepared to "lose"/"rejected" seems to calm my nerves. I guess it's the same in sports. When you go in expecting to lose, you are not worried about the outcome. You will perceive anything more than a loss is a bonus. And somehow, as an ex-sportsmen, some of my best performances come when my team was considered an underdog (expected to lose).

Personally, for my case, either outcomes will be positive. If rejected, I will be looking forward to beach life at Brisbane (Uni of Queensland). There's definitely a reason why Australia ranks above Singapore in terms of quality of life.
 
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