2015-2016 Washington University in St. Louis Application Thread

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panda16 said:
I'm guessing that their assets in their retirement accounts are what are tying you down? Because that would seem strange to me that if they are eventually retiring that that wouldn't help you out in some way.
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I'm assuming that's what my problem is, but I can't be 100% sure. I plan on calling schools and telling them about the fact that they're retiring and if that helps my case at all.
 
Pastamahn said:
I'm assuming that's what my problem is, but I can't be 100% sure. I plan on calling schools and telling them about the fact that they're retiring and if that helps my case at all.
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FYI (and I just don't know if you know this already or not because not everyone went through the financial aid process in undergrad), you resubmit the FAFSA and PROFILE/other supplemental forms every single year that you go to the institution. So while your parents are retiring NEXT year, that change will only start to be seen on NEXT year's FAFSA, if that makes sense. For example JHU makes you reapply every year so they can accurately account for this change and others, such as additional siblings going to college or medical school. I am not sure if WashU makes you reapply in this fashion. BUT it is DEFINITELY worth a conversation with FinAid about how your situation would change next year with your parents' significantly reduced income.
 
panda16 said:
FYI (and I just don't know if you know this already or not because not everyone went through the financial aid process in undergrad), you resubmit the FAFSA and PROFILE/other supplemental forms every single year that you go to the institution. So while your parents are retiring NEXT year, that change will only start to be seen on NEXT year's FAFSA, if that makes sense. For example JHU makes you reapply every year so they can accurately account for this change and others, such as additional siblings going to college or medical school. I am not sure if WashU makes you reapply in this fashion. BUT it is DEFINITELY worth a conversation with FinAid about how your situation would change next year with your parents' significantly reduced income.
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That's actually a really good point, thanks! I am almost positive WashU makes you reapply every year as well.
 
yeah so like definitely ask them about that (I did it during a financial aid appointment during SLW elsewhere and it was super helpful)
Pastamahn said:
That's actually a really good point, thanks! I am almost positive WashU makes you reapply every year as well.
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Does anyone have any idea on when the financial aid info will be released?
 
FYI, scholarship awardees got an email asking them to make a decision about whether or not to accept tuition scholarship by tomorrow (of course, there may be people who don't make their decision by then and there's probably nothing that can be done...) so that they can award any not accepted full tuition awards to other potential incoming students.

So there's a chance a few more big scholarships could go out to those holding acceptances!
 
Hello all!

Long time reader, first time actually posting anything...

I currently am on the Wait List at WashU, and on interview day, countless applicants and a few students said that they have taken around 50% of their classes from applicants who were originally on the Wait List. Has anyone else heard something comparable to this?

In addition, I was expecting there to be a ton of Wait List movement in the week or two following April 30th, given that most people wait until the last couple days to actually decide on a school, from my experience. Does anyone have any opinions on this as well?

Lastly, congratulations to all those who are already accepted! I loved WashU the moment my interview started, and would love the opportunity to go there.
 
Has anyone ever heard of a full ride scholarship at WashU? I hear they have full tuition scholarships but I'm wondering if they offer full rides as well.

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Almighty Saguaro said:
Has anyone ever heard of a full ride scholarship at WashU? I hear they have full tuition scholarships but I'm wondering if they offer full rides as well.

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As in covering full COA? I think they only have full tuition.
 
padfootmd said:
The only school I know of that does that is UCLA with the Geffen scholarship.
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I think Michigan might have a couple, and CCLCM has a handful. But pretty limited it seems like (aside from most MSTPs, of course).
 
What address/email are people sending update letters to?
 
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p0gono said:
I think Michigan might have a couple, and CCLCM has a handful. But pretty limited it seems like (aside from most MSTPs, of course).
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NYU too. To my knowledge, there aren't any scholarships like that here. Luckily, the cost of living is pretty cheap in St. Louis :luck:
 
Amba said:
NYU too. To my knowledge, there aren't any scholarships like that here. Luckily, the cost of living is pretty cheap in St. Louis :luck:
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I've been confused for a while about your "location", but I take it CWE means Central West End?
 
Should I go ahead and complete a financial aid form if I am on the waitlist? The message on Dean Ratts waitlist email regarding financial aid was ambiguous as to whether we should go ahead and fill it out.
 
Can any current (or former) students comment on how the grades in second year affect your quality of life?

At other schools, many students say P/F is the best thing ever and has a strong impact on their well-being, to the degree that they would never consider doing pre-clinical years with grades. This is honestly my biggest hesitation with WashU. How exactly have things changed for you in second year with respect to 1st year P/F system, or in comparison to friends at schools with P/F for second year?
 
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bararaboi said:
Should I go ahead and complete a financial aid form if I am on the waitlist? The message on Dean Ratts waitlist email regarding financial aid was ambiguous as to whether we should go ahead and fill it out.
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If you have the time, I would say you might as well file the aid documents so that everything can be processed more quickly if you're taken off the wait list.
 
Dence said:
Can any current (or former) students comment on how the grades in second year affect your quality of life?

At other schools, many students say P/F is the best thing ever and has a strong impact on their well-being, to the degree that they would never consider doing pre-clinical years with grades. This is honestly my biggest hesitation with WashU. How exactly have things changed for you in second year with respect to 1st year P/F system, or in comparison to friends at schools with P/F for second year?
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Across all four classes, ~90% of WashU students somewhat or strongly agree that a change to P/F would reduce stress levels in the second year.

Reed, D. A. et al. Relationship of pass/fail grading and curriculum structure with well-being among preclinical medical students: a multi-institutional study. Acad Med 86, 1367–1373 (2011). Students across 12 campuses at seven medical schools completed several validated instruments in 2007. Students in 3+-interval graded schools had significantly higher stress, emotional exhaustion, and depersonalization and were more likely to have burnout or to have seriously considered dropping out of school compared to students in schools with P/F grading. In a multivariate analysis, grading scale was more strongly associated with student well-being than other curricular factors examined, including number of contact days, clinical experiences, testing experiences, and number of tests.

Rohe, D. E. et al. The benefits of pass-fail grading on stress, mood, and group cohesion in medical students. Mayo Clin. Proc. 81, 1443–1448 (2006). Mayo Medical School switched the first year only to P/F in 2003. Students completed several validated instruments. The first P/F cohort had statistically significantly less stress and better overall mood compared with their letter-graded peers the year prior. Differences in stress persisted through second year (even though that year was traditionally graded). There was no significant differences between groups in test-taking anxiety.

Bloodgood, R. A., Short, J. G., Jackson, J. M. & Martindale, J. R. A change to pass/fail grading in the first two years at one medical school results in improved psychological well-being. Acad Med 84, 655–662 (2009). At University of Virginia, students completed the Dupuy General Well-Being Schedule. The P/F cohort had significantly better well-being for the first three semesters, as seen in scores in anxiety, depression, positive well-being, and vitality. No significant differences were found in the fourth semester.

The above studies were identified in a recent systematic review on stress-management programs for medical students: Shiralkar, M. T., Harris, T. B., Eddins-Folensbee, F. F. & Coverdale, J. H. A systematic review of stress-management programs for medical students. Acad Psychiatry 37, 158–164 (2013).

Slavin, S. J., Schindler, D. L. & Chibnall, J. T. Medical student mental health 3.0: improving student wellness through curricular changes. Acad Med 89, 573–577 (2014). In a more recent study at Saint Louis University, changing to P/F as part of a multifaceted preclinical curricular reform, including reduced contact hours, was associated with lower levels of moderate to severe depression symptoms, anxiety symptoms, and stress.
 
It was interesting that at second look while first and second years were very in favor of a switch to P/F (which seems like it is going to happen for second year by the time we are M2s) M3/M4s didn't approve of the change.
 
Thank you for the thorough reply, Cognovi. I'll check out those papers when I get a chance later.

Pastamahn said:
It was interesting that at second look while first and second years were very in favor of a switch to P/F (which seems like it is going to happen for second year by the time we are M2s) M3/M4s didn't approve of the change.
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I don't recall hearing about the switch to P/F at interview day. I'm just on the waitlist, so if it was brought up at second look I wouldn't have heard about it. Is this something they're actually moving forward with? Or just talking about?
 
Dence said:
Thank you for the thorough reply, Cognovi. I'll check out those papers when I get a chance later.



I don't recall hearing about the switch to P/F at interview day. I'm just on the waitlist, so if it was brought up at second look I wouldn't have heard about it. Is this something they're actually moving forward with? Or just talking about?
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It seems like they have gotten a lot of momentum and it sounded like it was a 90% chance or so it would be in place by the time we are M2s. But could any current students comment? @Amba @gettheleadout and I'm assuming you're a current student, @Cognovi ?
 
Pastamahn said:
It seems like they have gotten a lot of momentum and it sounded like it was a 90% chance or so it would be in place by the time we are M2s. But could any current students comment? @Amba @gettheleadout and I'm assuming you're a current student, @Cognovi ?
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I second this. At second look, we were given the impression that it would very likely be changed for the current MS1 class (2019) and almost certainly for the incoming MS1 (2020).

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Pastamahn said:
It seems like they have gotten a lot of momentum and it sounded like it was a 90% chance or so it would be in place by the time we are M2s. But could any current students comment? @Amba @gettheleadout and I'm assuming you're a current student, @Cognovi ?
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I'll defer to @Cognovi, since s/he seems to know more about this than I do. But my impression is that it's basically a done deal.
 
Amba said:
I'll defer to @Cognovi, since s/he seems to know more about this than I do. But my impression is that it's basically a done deal.
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Here's a brief history for posterity and for insight into how change happens at WashU. Prompted by student initiative, the issue (P/F second year) was addressed in a survey of students, coursemasters, clerkship directors, and program directors in late 2012. Subsequently, a working group comprised of representatives from the aforementioned stakeholder groups was charged by the senior associate dean for education to consider the issues of second year performance evaluation and curriculum structure (SPECS) in 2013. Literature and policies at peer schools were reviewed. This group recommended that taking USMLE Step 1 and 2 be required of all students to graduate, that the workload in the latter part of second year be reduced, and that there be a minimum five week break between second year and third year clerkships. On P/F, the SPECS working group was split and recommended that the decision be revisited in two years while other curricular/policy changes were being implemented. SPECS made these recommendations to the Committee on Medical Education (CME), which is the primary policy making body for undergraduate medical education at the school and is comprised of faculty, students, and the associate dean for medical student education. CME was split but voted by majority to approve P/F for second year. Major policy changes made by CME have to be approved by the Academic Affairs Committee (AAC), which is a subset of the executive faculty comprised of department chairs and equivalents that oversees medical and graduate student programs as well as faculty affairs. In early 2014, the AAC affirmed the original SPECS recommendation, thereby pausing this process and deferring the decision. Consequently, the issue was revisited in early 2016. Committee memberships and administrative leaders have changed. No working group was reconvened. The above groups were re-surveyed. Opinions shifted towards in favor of a change among all groups, now for the first time including a majority of M3s and M4s. The CME re-approved the change, now unanimously, to be effective next academic year. It is now pending approval from AAC in May. The dean team is working to anticipate and address any logistical concerns. Following that, it requires approval from Executive Faculty (the full set of department chairs plus the dean of the school) with a three-quarters favorable vote in June.

tl;dr: 90% chance
 
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just how slim are the odds of receiving merit aid off the waitlist, either outright or by leveraging other merit aid? Unlikely of course, like all merit aid, but does it ever happen?
 
ohnotornadooo said:
just how slim are the odds of receiving merit aid off the waitlist, either outright or by leveraging other merit aid? Unlikely of course, like all merit aid, but does it ever happen?
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I know of at least two people in my class that are on full-tuition scholarships after getting accepted from the waitlist. Likely? Probably not. But definitely possible.
 
Amba said:
I know of at least two people in my class that are on full-tuition scholarships after getting accepted from the waitlist. Likely? Probably not. But definitely possible.
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They flew all the DSS (full tuition scholarship) folks out to second look weekend. I only stayed for one of the three days, but talking to a couple of others on the DSS , at least three were planning on committing elsewhere. WashU does redistribute scholarships, but remember, they can also redistribute to admitted students as well as waitlisted. I wouldn't rule anything out.
 
Has there been any waitlist movement this month or do we think they are waiting for the deadline before offering any positions?
 
bearintraining said:
Has there been any waitlist movement this month or do we think they are waiting for the deadline before offering any positions?
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Based on last year's thread waitlist movement could start in the next couple days.
 
Has anyone heard about enrollment numbers? In the Pritzker thread there's talk of possible over enrollment, meaning waitlist movement is highly unlikely. Just wondering if we can expect typical movement for WashU this year.
 
Dence said:
Has anyone heard about enrollment numbers? In the Pritzker thread there's talk of possible over enrollment, meaning waitlist movement is highly unlikely. Just wondering if we can expect typical movement for WashU this year.
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This is probably rationalizing, but it seems that WashU's competitors like UPenn and UChicago are having super high yield, so maybe WashU has a lower yield than usual this year and we see more waitlist activity?
 
Dence said:
Has anyone heard about enrollment numbers? In the Pritzker thread there's talk of possible over enrollment, meaning waitlist movement is highly unlikely. Just wondering if we can expect typical movement for WashU this year.
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My guess is it's still too early. Many folks seem to be taking advantage of the extended deadline to make their final decisions.
 
nholaday said:
This is probably rationalizing, but it seems that WashU's competitors like UPenn and UChicago are having super high yield, so maybe WashU has a lower yield than usual this year and we see more waitlist activity?
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That sounds reasonable. I'm on the waitlist for all three, so hopefully at least one of them isn't overenrolling...
 
Dence said:
That sounds reasonable. I'm on the waitlist for all three, so hopefully at least one of them isn't overenrolling...
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That is a super competitive list. Your status says pre-medical. Does it mean you have no admissions yet?
 
Dence said:
Has anyone heard about enrollment numbers? In the Pritzker thread there's talk of possible over enrollment, meaning waitlist movement is highly unlikely. Just wondering if we can expect typical movement for WashU this year.
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How do they know that there is over enrollment ?
 
Someone called the school yesterday and found out that as of 2 PM, they still have 148 students who are on the accepted list. The class size is supposed to be 88 which means about 60 additional people need to drop out still by deadline.

Edit: this is for Pritzker and response to post 1356.
 
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texasvandy said:
Someone called the school yesterday and found out that as of 2 PM, they still have 148 students who are on the accepted list. The class size is supposed to be 88 which means about 60 additional people need to drop out still by deadline.
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Wrong forum? The class size is not 88
 
texasvandy said:
That is a super competitive list. Your status says pre-medical. Does it mean you have no admissions yet?
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I've been accepted. Just haven't felt implored to change my status.

nholaday said:
Those are my waitlisted schools as well! I'm just hoping for one. I'd be fine with any of them
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Good luck! And I agree--they all seem like great places. If any of them take me I'll pull off the other waitlists just to have some peace of mind. I'm ready for the admissions process to end.
 
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