What are my chances?

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

As long as you have the pre-reqs it really doesn't matter what your degree is.

What does your vet experience/animal experience look like? That is also incredibly important, not just the grades. Typically those with lower grades have to make up for it in the other parts of their application.

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[bombai]

Hello! I'm having trouble with making sure I'm posting in the right place... so if not let me know I am currently an animal science major with a minor in secondary edu at Sam Houston. I'm not sure I want to be a teacher but have always dreamed of being a vet. I stopped pursuing vet school after doing poorly my first year in college, thinking I couldn't be a vet because of my low gpa. My accumulative gpa is a 3 with a 3.4 at Sam.
I'm expected to graduate in May of 18 with my degree and I'm just curious... is it too late?
Here are a few questions I'm looking for answers or advice...
- if I complete this degree then get a masters in biology or a science, could I get accepted into vet school with my undergrad minor not being pre-vet but education?

- I have almost no minor classes done so far. If I switch to pre-vet as my minor and do stellar in the minor and math (along with my gre) would there be a chance of acceptance with a lower gpa major and high minor gpa?

I'm honestly scared to start over and then fail... I think that's my biggest fear. I don't want to screw up again..
any advice would be wonderful. Thank you so much

My B.A. and my M.A. are in non-science related fields and I have no majors or minors in anything science-related. After I earned my degrees, I took the prerequisites (many years later). I only applied to veterinary school once (this past cycle) and will be starting in August! In other words, you really only need the prerequisites. If you want to improve your GPA, you might go for a graduate degree. I would focus on getting good grades in your prerequisites as the last 45 credits are important. Look into which schools you are interested in as each school may have a different set of prerequisites and requirements. Believe me, I can relate to starting over... if you want it, you can do it .

 

[agility_tyme21]

Hello! I'm having trouble with making sure I'm posting in the right place... so if not let me know I am currently an animal science major with a minor in secondary edu at Sam Houston. I'm not sure I want to be a teacher but have always dreamed of being a vet. I stopped pursuing vet school after doing poorly my first year in college, thinking I couldn't be a vet because of my low gpa. My accumulative gpa is a 3 with a 3.4 at Sam.
I'm expected to graduate in May of 18 with my degree and I'm just curious... is it too late?
Here are a few questions I'm looking for answers or advice...
- if I complete this degree then get a masters in biology or a science, could I get accepted into vet school with my undergrad minor not being pre-vet but education?
- I have almost no minor classes done so far. If I switch to pre-vet as my minor and do stellar in the minor and math (along with my gre) would there be a chance of acceptance with a lower gpa major and high minor gpa?
I'm honestly scared to start over and then fail... I think that's my biggest fear. I don't want to screw up again..
any advice would be wonderful. Thank you so much

I think everyone is afraid of failing! If becoming a vet is your life's passion and you can't see yourself doing anything else, you should go for it. A lot of us on here didn't have perfect grades or had a really bad year in college, it doesn't mean it's over. I don't think it's too late, I think you just need to focus on what you need to do to be a strong applicant. You have just about 1 year until you apply that means (unless you're considering a gap year). You could start by reaching out to some admissions counselor's at the vet school and asking for a critique or meeting. They will give you an honest opinion about where you currently stand...and what you need to work on in the next year. What's your experience like? That's a big factor in a lot of admissions formulas. Also regarding your minor...if the education side of it makes you happy and you're doing great in it, KEEP IT. They love to see well rounded applicants, I don't think they want their entire class to be Biology majors and Pre-Vet majors. Having something different like a minor in education could really benefit you, especially if it helps bump your GPA. Like the others said, you just need to get your pre-reqs done, but you could do those at your school as electives. GPA isn't everything but it helps. Study for the GRE and try to maximize your score on that. The admissions counselors are really helpful too, I definitely recommend speaking with them!

 

[scivet116]

Hey guys. Non-traditional student here looking for advice. Applied this cycle and rejected at Wisconsin and Davis, currently alternate for Tufts and CSU. What can I do to improve my chances for next cycle?

Female, 28, California
Undergraduate institution: University at Buffalo SUNY 2011
Graduate: University of California, San Diego 2011-Present
Degrees:
-BS in psychology
-MA in experimental psychology
-PhD (April 2017) in experimental psychology, specializing in anthropogeny

Overall GPA: 3.6
Science GPA: 3.3*
Last 45: 3.67
Prereqs (I guess this varies by school but just included all of them): 3.23*
* I have Cs and low Bs in some science classes from years circa 2008-2009, worth retaking? In the past few years I’ve gotten mostly As. I have been taking the majority of the prereq classes while in graduate school ..

GRE: V/Q/W 160 (85%)/155 (60%)/4.0 (59%) - I’ve taken it 3 times..

Veterinary Experience:
- Lab animal: 1000 hours
- Shelter: 65 hours

Animal Experience:
- Birds, mice, salamanders, dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters as pets growing up

Non-Veterinary Experience:
- Teaching assistant
-Yoga teacher
-Various jobs in food industry (waitress, banquet server, cashier)

Research:
-Marmoset neurobiology and communication (my thesis): 10,000+ hours
-Bleeding techniques in mice: ~150 hours
-Bird communication: ~400+ hours

Publications:
-1 first author research article
-1 first author scientific book chapter
- 3 manuscripts in prep

Extracurriculars:
- Yoga
- Running races
- Hiking
- Neuroscience outreach/teaching (volunteer)

Honors/Awards:
- CARTA Fellowship ($20,000/year - research award)
- Research Travel award ($1200)
- NSF GRFP Honorable Mention
- Undergraduate High Honors
- Undergraduate research award ($500)

LORs:
-Principal investigator of the lab I work in (marmosets)
-Principal investigator at another lab I worked in (marmosets)
-4 Lab animal vets

In my personal statement, I talked about how I had been exposed to lots of different medical issues in primates and other animals throughout graduate school, and I had come to realize vet med was a really fulfilling career path for me. I discussed my experiences and how each one contributed to a growing interest in the field, and expressed an interest in lab animal medicine and pathology.

So, I’m planning to look for veterinary assistant jobs to start after I defend in April. I know I lack clinical experience and this was pointed out to me in an interview. My GPA isn’t stellar, but I was hoping that admissions would see that my grades have improved a ton and I’ve gotten mostly As in past few years. Should I retake the classes I got Cs in? What else can I realistically do to improve in the next 6 months? Thank you.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

Hey!

So first off, your overall GPA and last 45 is a bit above average, which is awesome. What is most likely causing you issues is the lower science gpa in combination with your experience distribution. It is super awesome that you have lab animal hours and have a research background. However, most schools are going to want to see a bit of diversity. I would definitely get some experience working in a vet clinic, and possibly some shadowing hours with a LA vet and/or equine vet.

Given the low grades in science classes, I would definitely retake 1 or 2 of your lowest, simply to prove to admissions that, "yes, I can do well in these pre-req classes.

Out of curiosity, are you looking to do a lab animal residency after you complete vet school?

 

[scivet116]

Hey!

So first off, your overall GPA and last 45 is a bit above average, which is awesome. What is most likely causing you issues is the lower science gpa in combination with your experience distribution. It is super awesome that you have lab animal hours and have a research background. However, most schools are going to want to see a bit of diversity. I would definitely get some experience working in a vet clinic, and possibly some shadowing hours with a LA vet and/or equine vet.

Given the low grades in science classes, I would definitely retake 1 or 2 of your lowest, simply to prove to admissions that, "yes, I can do well in these pre-req classes.

Out of curiosity, are you looking to do a lab animal residency after you complete vet school?

Hey thanks for your input! Now that I am graduating it will be easier to fill in the gaps in my experience! I have gotten As in a lot of upper div courses, like biochem, molecular bio, microbio, organic... My C’s are in intro bio classes... how I regret my freshman year of college haha. I am definitely considering retaking them as summer classes so I can get them on my application before it is due.

And yes! I am primarily interested in lab animal and pathology. I like surgery too but what is great about lab animal is the breadth of it includes some surgeries, some path, epidemiology, etc. I love how diverse the field is and its close ties to academics. And I am still interested in research, but I’d like to do something with more biomedical application than I am now (my thesis is basic science with almost zero application).

 

[Momokeen]

Hey guys. Non-traditional student here looking for advice. Applied this cycle and rejected at Wisconsin and Davis, currently alternate for Tufts and CSU. What can I do to improve my chances for next cycle?

Female, 28, California
Undergraduate institution: University at Buffalo SUNY 2011
Graduate: University of California, San Diego 2011-Present
Degrees:
-BS in psychology
-MA in experimental psychology
-PhD (April 2017) in experimental psychology, specializing in anthropogeny

Overall GPA: 3.6
Science GPA: 3.3*
Last 45: 3.67
Prereqs (I guess this varies by school but just included all of them): 3.23*
* I have Cs and low Bs in some science classes from years circa 2008-2009, worth retaking? In the past few years I’ve gotten mostly As. I have been taking the majority of the prereq classes while in graduate school ..

GRE: V/Q/W 160 (85%)/155 (60%)/4.0 (59%) - I’ve taken it 3 times..

Veterinary Experience:
- Lab animal: 1000 hours
- Shelter: 65 hours

Animal Experience:
- Birds, mice, salamanders, dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters as pets growing up

Non-Veterinary Experience:
- Teaching assistant
-Yoga teacher
-Various jobs in food industry (waitress, banquet server, cashier)

Research:
-Marmoset neurobiology and communication (my thesis): 10,000+ hours
-Bleeding techniques in mice: ~150 hours
-Bird communication: ~400+ hours

Publications:
-1 first author research article
-1 first author scientific book chapter
- 3 manuscripts in prep

Extracurriculars:
- Yoga
- Running races
- Hiking
- Neuroscience outreach/teaching (volunteer)

Honors/Awards:
- CARTA Fellowship ($20,000/year - research award)
- Research Travel award ($1200)
- NSF GRFP Honorable Mention
- Undergraduate High Honors
- Undergraduate research award ($500)

LORs:
-Principal investigator of the lab I work in (marmosets)
-Principal investigator at another lab I worked in (marmosets)
-4 Lab animal vets

In my personal statement, I talked about how I had been exposed to lots of different medical issues in primates and other animals throughout graduate school, and I had come to realize vet med was a really fulfilling career path for me. I discussed my experiences and how each one contributed to a growing interest in the field, and expressed an interest in lab animal medicine and pathology.

So, I’m planning to look for veterinary assistant jobs to start after I defend in April. I know I lack clinical experience and this was pointed out to me in an interview. My GPA isn’t stellar, but I was hoping that admissions would see that my grades have improved a ton and I’ve gotten mostly As in past few years. Should I retake the classes I got Cs in? What else can I realistically do to improve in the next 6 months? Thank you.

I agree with @SummerTheLynx. It's great that you have a lot of lab animal experience. Much of my experience is in lab animal too but I have it balanced out with a lot of small animal practice hours as well. Vet schools like to see depth but also some breadth of experience. So then if you really want to work with lab animals you can confidently say "yeah SA/LA practice isn't my area of choice and I have the experience to back that up. What I really like is this..." and along with that you could get at least another vet in a different area to speak to your potential. And maybe taking a few upper level hard science classes to prove your ability as well would help. And maybe look into some other schools to apply to if you can . I'm sure there are others that would really love your experience. Especially the lab animal (I.e. Mizzou)

 

[SummerTheLynx]

Hey thanks for your input! Now that I am graduating it will be easier to fill in the gaps in my experience! I have gotten As in a lot of upper div courses, like biochem, molecular bio, microbio, organic... My C’s are in intro bio classes... how I regret my freshman year of college haha. I am definitely considering retaking them as summer classes so I can get them on my application before it is due.

And yes! I am primarily interested in lab animal and pathology. I like surgery too but what is great about lab animal is the breadth of it includes some surgeries, some path, epidemiology, etc. I love how diverse the field is and its close ties to academics. And I am still interested in research, but I’d like to do something with more biomedical application than I am now (my thesis is basic science with almost zero application).

Unfortunately it really depends on how they calculate their grades. If they calculate a pre-req, its a big thing against you, even if you have As in all these higher level bio classes (which I completely agree, is not the best way of addressing that).

Ah very awesome! My fiance is looking into lab animal vet now, she did a program at my school which pretty much allows you to be a lab animal vet for 8 weeks (my school is really big on lab animal medicine). That marmoset experience is super cool and unique (even without the application)

 

[TrashPanda]

Hey guys. Non-traditional student here looking for advice. Applied this cycle and rejected at Wisconsin and Davis, currently alternate for Tufts and CSU. What can I do to improve my chances for next cycle?

Female, 28, California
Undergraduate institution: University at Buffalo SUNY 2011
Graduate: University of California, San Diego 2011-Present
Degrees:
-BS in psychology
-MA in experimental psychology
-PhD (April 2017) in experimental psychology, specializing in anthropogeny

Overall GPA: 3.6
Science GPA: 3.3*
Last 45: 3.67
Prereqs (I guess this varies by school but just included all of them): 3.23*
* I have Cs and low Bs in some science classes from years circa 2008-2009, worth retaking? In the past few years I’ve gotten mostly As. I have been taking the majority of the prereq classes while in graduate school ..

GRE: V/Q/W 160 (85%)/155 (60%)/4.0 (59%) - I’ve taken it 3 times..

Veterinary Experience:
- Lab animal: 1000 hours
- Shelter: 65 hours

Animal Experience:
- Birds, mice, salamanders, dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters as pets growing up

Non-Veterinary Experience:
- Teaching assistant
-Yoga teacher
-Various jobs in food industry (waitress, banquet server, cashier)

Research:
-Marmoset neurobiology and communication (my thesis): 10,000+ hours
-Bleeding techniques in mice: ~150 hours
-Bird communication: ~400+ hours

Publications:
-1 first author research article
-1 first author scientific book chapter
- 3 manuscripts in prep

Extracurriculars:
- Yoga
- Running races
- Hiking
- Neuroscience outreach/teaching (volunteer)

Honors/Awards:
- CARTA Fellowship ($20,000/year - research award)
- Research Travel award ($1200)
- NSF GRFP Honorable Mention
- Undergraduate High Honors
- Undergraduate research award ($500)

LORs:
-Principal investigator of the lab I work in (marmosets)
-Principal investigator at another lab I worked in (marmosets)
-4 Lab animal vets

In my personal statement, I talked about how I had been exposed to lots of different medical issues in primates and other animals throughout graduate school, and I had come to realize vet med was a really fulfilling career path for me. I discussed my experiences and how each one contributed to a growing interest in the field, and expressed an interest in lab animal medicine and pathology.

So, I’m planning to look for veterinary assistant jobs to start after I defend in April. I know I lack clinical experience and this was pointed out to me in an interview. My GPA isn’t stellar, but I was hoping that admissions would see that my grades have improved a ton and I’ve gotten mostly As in past few years. Should I retake the classes I got Cs in? What else can I realistically do to improve in the next 6 months? Thank you.

I agree with @SummerTheLynx about experience and grades. It looks like you were waitlisted for an interview at Davis- since they only consider last 45 GPA, science GPA, quant GRE, and LORs (in that order), I think you'd be a shoo-in for an interview next cycle if you retake a few pre-reqs. That would increase your last 45 and your science GPA, which would also help for other schools.

You have a good number of veterinary hours, it's just that you're lacking in diversity. If job prospects with your PhD are good, I suggest working in your field and getting some small/large vet experience on weekends/before and after work/on vacation days. I know it's not easy (I'm also a non-trad and that's how I did it) but you could probably save some money that way. Make sure you get a LOR from someone other than a lab vet- I think 4 from the same field is excessive. It's important to show that you're open to other areas of vet med and have experience in them, even if you do have you heart set on lab animal.

I think for the right school, your research experience will be a huge plus. As @Momokeen mentioned, Mizzou is big on research and really likes applicants who aren't just into small animals. I was accepted there with lower than average (for them) stats and they asked about my research in my interview.

Also, definitely do file reviews. I think you have an excellent chance of getting in next year if you tweak your app just a little. And that's if you don't get off any waitlists, which you certainly might! Good luck!

 

[lilylilac]

Hey guys. Non-traditional student here looking for advice. Applied this cycle and rejected at Wisconsin and Davis, currently alternate for Tufts and CSU. What can I do to improve my chances for next cycle?

Female, 28, California
Undergraduate institution: University at Buffalo SUNY 2011
Graduate: University of California, San Diego 2011-Present
Degrees:
-BS in psychology
-MA in experimental psychology
-PhD (April 2017) in experimental psychology, specializing in anthropogeny

Overall GPA: 3.6
Science GPA: 3.3*
Last 45: 3.67
Prereqs (I guess this varies by school but just included all of them): 3.23*
* I have Cs and low Bs in some science classes from years circa 2008-2009, worth retaking? In the past few years I’ve gotten mostly As. I have been taking the majority of the prereq classes while in graduate school ..

GRE: V/Q/W 160 (85%)/155 (60%)/4.0 (59%) - I’ve taken it 3 times..

Veterinary Experience:
- Lab animal: 1000 hours
- Shelter: 65 hours

Animal Experience:
- Birds, mice, salamanders, dogs, cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters as pets growing up

Non-Veterinary Experience:
- Teaching assistant
-Yoga teacher
-Various jobs in food industry (waitress, banquet server, cashier)

Research:
-Marmoset neurobiology and communication (my thesis): 10,000+ hours
-Bleeding techniques in mice: ~150 hours
-Bird communication: ~400+ hours

Publications:
-1 first author research article
-1 first author scientific book chapter
- 3 manuscripts in prep

Extracurriculars:
- Yoga
- Running races
- Hiking
- Neuroscience outreach/teaching (volunteer)

Honors/Awards:
- CARTA Fellowship ($20,000/year - research award)
- Research Travel award ($1200)
- NSF GRFP Honorable Mention
- Undergraduate High Honors
- Undergraduate research award ($500)

LORs:
-Principal investigator of the lab I work in (marmosets)
-Principal investigator at another lab I worked in (marmosets)
-4 Lab animal vets

In my personal statement, I talked about how I had been exposed to lots of different medical issues in primates and other animals throughout graduate school, and I had come to realize vet med was a really fulfilling career path for me. I discussed my experiences and how each one contributed to a growing interest in the field, and expressed an interest in lab animal medicine and pathology.

So, I’m planning to look for veterinary assistant jobs to start after I defend in April. I know I lack clinical experience and this was pointed out to me in an interview. My GPA isn’t stellar, but I was hoping that admissions would see that my grades have improved a ton and I’ve gotten mostly As in past few years. Should I retake the classes I got Cs in? What else can I realistically do to improve in the next 6 months? Thank you.

So your stats and GPA look fairly similar to what mine were, except that I had roughly 3.6-3.7 across the board. I had even less vet experience than you too. I made very clear though that I have little interest in the clinical setting and want to do anatomic pathology and research. Along with what everyone else has said, it might also be a matter of where you're applying. I didn't apply to any of those schools, but I ended up getting accepted to 3/6 schools I did apply to. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss applying or the transition from finishing a PhD and going back to school or anything else!

 

[SummerTheLynx]

So your stats and GPA look fairly similar to what mine were, except that I had roughly 3.6-3.7 across the board. I had even less vet experience than you too. I made very clear though that I have little interest in the clinical setting and want to do anatomic pathology and research. Along with what everyone else has said, it might also be a matter of where you're applying. I didn't apply to any of those schools, but I ended up getting accepted to 3/6 schools I did apply to. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss applying or the transition from finishing a PhD and going back to school or anything else!

Agreed, there is definitely a degree of tactics in how/where you apply. But there are other issues that constrain some people's choices in where they apply (costs, where SO can find a job, those that wish to be close to family, etc), so she may not be able to apply in that type of manner.

 

[lilylilac]

Agreed, there is definitely a degree of tactics in how/where you apply. But there are other issues that constrain some people's choices in where they apply (costs, where SO can find a job, those that wish to be close to family, etc), so she may not be able to apply in that type of manner.

Very true, I didn't have any constraints, which I should have clarified. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[Momokeen]

Agreed, there is definitely a degree of tactics in how/where you apply. But there are other issues that constrain some people's choices in where they apply (costs, where SO can find a job, those that wish to be close to family, etc), so she may not be able to apply in that type of manner.

That is very true. If you are limited to where you can apply @scivet116 then I would definitely call those schools and see what they say in a file review.

 

[scivet116]

I agree with @SummerTheLynx. It's great that you have a lot of lab animal experience. Much of my experience is in lab animal too but I have it balanced out with a lot of small animal practice hours as well. Vet schools like to see depth but also some breadth of experience. So then if you really want to work with lab animals you can confidently say "yeah SA/LA practice isn't my area of choice and I have the experience to back that up. What I really like is this..." and along with that you could get at least another vet in a different area to speak to your potential. And maybe taking a few upper level hard science classes to prove your ability as well would help. And maybe look into some other schools to apply to if you can . I'm sure there are others that would really love your experience. Especially the lab animal (I.e. Mizzou)

Hey thanks for your input! I am definitely broadening my horizons for schools next cycle. The schools I picked were either close to family or somewhere my SO thought he'd enjoy and find work in. It seems the common theme of the responses I'm getting is to diversify! So definitely will be looking into some small animal work soon!


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[scivet116]

So your stats and GPA look fairly similar to what mine were, except that I had roughly 3.6-3.7 across the board. I had even less vet experience than you too. I made very clear though that I have little interest in the clinical setting and want to do anatomic pathology and research. Along with what everyone else has said, it might also be a matter of where you're applying. I didn't apply to any of those schools, but I ended up getting accepted to 3/6 schools I did apply to. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss applying or the transition from finishing a PhD and going back to school or anything else!

Hey thanks! You sound a lot like me! I'm going to PM you tomorrow because I would love to hear more about how you came to find vetmed as the path for you!


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[scivet116]

Unfortunately it really depends on how they calculate their grades. If they calculate a pre-req, its a big thing against you, even if you have As in all these higher level bio classes (which I completely agree, is not the best way of addressing that).

Ah very awesome! My fiance is looking into lab animal vet now, she did a program at my school which pretty much allows you to be a lab animal vet for 8 weeks (my school is really big on lab animal medicine). That marmoset experience is super cool and unique (even without the application)

Marmosets are the best species I've worked with! They are so curious and interesting, not to mention so cute!


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[scivet116]

I agree with @SummerTheLynx about experience and grades. It looks like you were waitlisted for an interview at Davis- since they only consider last 45 GPA, science GPA, quant GRE, and LORs (in that order), I think you'd be a shoo-in for an interview next cycle if you retake a few pre-reqs. That would increase your last 45 and your science GPA, which would also help for other schools.

You have a good number of veterinary hours, it's just that you're lacking in diversity. If job prospects with your PhD are good, I suggest working in your field and getting some small/large vet experience on weekends/before and after work/on vacation days. I know it's not easy (I'm also a non-trad and that's how I did it) but you could probably save some money that way. Make sure you get a LOR from someone other than a lab vet- I think 4 from the same field is excessive. It's important to show that you're open to other areas of vet med and have experience in them, even if you do have you heart set on lab animal.

I think for the right school, your research experience will be a huge plus. As @Momokeen mentioned, Mizzou is big on research and really likes applicants who aren't just into small animals. I was accepted there with lower than average (for them) stats and they asked about my research in my interview.

Also, definitely do file reviews. I think you have an excellent chance of getting in next year if you tweak your app just a little. And that's if you don't get off any waitlists, which you certainly might! Good luck!

Thanks for the feedback! I have definitely been debating if I should make money this year and volunteer on the side, my worry is that it wouldn't be enough hours for it to be considered a relevant experience since I only have 6 months (I'd have to start in April because I'm defending my dissertation then and it's taking every extra hour I have to get done now).

It would be great to actually get an interview at my in state school, so I am considering taking those prereqs again. Do you have any idea how that works with regards to if the grade totally gets replaced? I've never retaken a class before so I'm not sure if that's a silly question...


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[TrashPanda]

Thanks for the feedback! I have definitely been debating if I should make money this year and volunteer on the side, my worry is that it wouldn't be enough hours for it to be considered a relevant experience since I only have 6 months (I'd have to start in April because I'm defending my dissertation then and it's taking every extra hour I have to get done now).

It would be great to actually get an interview at my in state school, so I am considering taking those prereqs again. Do you have any idea how that works with regards to if the grade totally gets replaced? I've never retaken a class before so I'm not sure if that's a silly question...


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It's tough to say. If you could manage 5 hours/week from April to the close of the cycle, that would give you 120 hours which isn't much overall, but I think the difference between 0 small animal hours and 120 small animal hours is a lot. You have two waitlists out of four applications, which means you were close to getting in. I wouldn't recommend it, but there's a decent chance that if you did basically nothing you could get in next year depending on luck and how competitive next cycle is.

But yeah, I think getting whatever hours you can, especially if you also take a class or two this summer, could make a difference. The other side of this is that since you don't have much time to improve your application, you may want to make plans for if you have to apply for a third cycle. In that case, you would have more time to take classes/get hours and it may be an especially good idea to get a job that pays more than being a vet assistant. Personally, I took the higher paying job/longer time route to getting in and I don't regret it.

Each school has their own policy on retaking classes, but most average. UC Davis doesn't look at a pre-req GPA so for them, it won't matter whether you retake the same classes or take different science classes. Whether you should retake pre-reqs or take different upper level classes would be a good question to ask in file reviews

 

[mrd006]

Okay, I am joining the "what are my chances" bandwagon.

I plan to start applying May 2017.

White, Female, 20 (21 in May)
NC Resident
Applying to NCSU and possibly 1 other (I haven't decided on another yet)

Cumulative GPA: ~3.45
Last 45: ~3.4
Science~3.4

Experience:
-300+ small animal clinic
-80 equine/research
-400+ animal experience as a kennel attendant and bather at a grooming facility
-60+ volunteering at a low income spay/neuter clinic
-I attended a breeding symposium at NCSU (10 hours)

-Member of the Honors College
-Collegiate Volleyball (2 years)
-Travel Volleyball Coach
-Pre-vet club
-Volunteer high school volleyball assistant coach

**I am attending the FAMES symposium this weekend at NCSU, and am riding along with a swine vet from Prestage Farms over spring break.**

Chances of getting in? I come from a very rural area. A girl from my area was just accepted to NCSU on her first try.

 

[Beezlebub]

oops wrong forum.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

Okay, I am joining the "what are my chances" bandwagon.

I plan to start applying May 2017.

White, Female, 20 (21 in May)
NC Resident
Applying to NCSU and possibly 1 other (I haven't decided on another yet)

Cumulative GPA: ~3.45
Last 45: ~3.4
Science~3.4

Experience:
-300+ small animal clinic
-80 equine/research
-400+ animal experience as a kennel attendant and bather at a grooming facility
-60+ volunteering at a low income spay/neuter clinic
-I attended a breeding symposium at NCSU (10 hours)

-Member of the Honors College
-Collegiate Volleyball (2 years)
-Travel Volleyball Coach
-Pre-vet club
-Volunteer high school volleyball assistant coach

**I am attending the FAMES symposium this weekend at NCSU, and am riding along with a swine vet from Prestage Farms over spring break.**

Chances of getting in? I come from a very rural area. A girl from my area was just accepted to NCSU on her first try.

I have a bit of background knowledge about NCSU IS admission from my roommate, so I will try and be as helpful as possible. They do IS admissions where there are different thresholds for different areas of the state, where rural areas will get a bit more leeway in GPA and those in the triangle are looked at with less leeway. The GPA is average, possibly slightly below average. The amount of experience is also a little bit on the lower side. Is the equine/research equine research, or a mix of equine clinical hours and research. The swine medicine will definitely be helpful! I would beef up your small animal a bit if that is your focus/foundation, and try and get a bit of clinical equine experience as well as a bit more large animal experience (besides riding with the twine vet). The GPA is not bad, but bunkering down and trying to raise it to break the 3.5 threshold would be helpful. Based off the fact that you are from a rural area, I would suspect that your values will be solid enough to get in, but if you can beef up your application with the few things I suggested, I think you would be set!

 

[mrd006]

I have a bit of background knowledge about NCSU IS admission from my roommate, so I will try and be as helpful as possible. They do IS admissions where there are different thresholds for different areas of the state, where rural areas will get a bit more leeway in GPA and those in the triangle are looked at with less leeway. The GPA is average, possibly slightly below average. The amount of experience is also a little bit on the lower side. Is the equine/research equine research, or a mix of equine clinical hours and research. The swine medicine will definitely be helpful! I would beef up your small animal a bit if that is your focus/foundation, and try and get a bit of clinical equine experience as well as a bit more large animal experience (besides riding with the twine vet). The GPA is not bad, but bunkering down and trying to raise it to break the 3.5 threshold would be helpful. Based off the fact that you are from a rural area, I would suspect that your values will be solid enough to get in, but if you can beef up your application with the few things I suggested, I think you would be set!

Thanks for the honesty! That is exactly what I needed. I had a rough start to undergrad (First 2 years my GPA was less than a 3.1). So I have managed to bring it up since then. The equine/research is kind of tricky. I volunteered with the theriogenology department at NCSU. I worked with the research ponies and learned breeding management, got to look at ultrasounds, prepared semen for AI, and artificially inseminated two mares. There was one day where I went on campus and helped do some lab-based research also. I am a student at a small school (UNC-Pembroke) so I thought the chance to work with the therio department at the CVM was pretty solid. I think I have more small animal hours than that (like maybe 100 more) but I don't have my notebook with me. I have tried to shadow an equine vet 3 different times and got turned down all 3 times. I am considering doing mixed so I know I need to do more equine experience. Plus it will help me make up my mind.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

Thanks for the honesty! That is exactly what I needed. I had a rough start to undergrad (First 2 years my GPA was less than a 3.1). So I have managed to bring it up since then. The equine/research is kind of tricky. I volunteered with the theriogenology department at NCSU. I worked with the research ponies and learned breeding management, got to look at ultrasounds, prepared semen for AI, and artificially inseminated two mares. There was one day where I went on campus and helped do some lab-based research also. I am a student at a small school (UNC-Pembroke) so I thought the chance to work with the therio department at the CVM was pretty solid. I think I have more small animal hours than that (like maybe 100 more) but I don't have my notebook with me. I have tried to shadow an equine vet 3 different times and got turned down all 3 times. I am considering doing mixed so I know I need to do more equine experience. Plus it will help me make up my mind.

Vet schools love to see upwards trends and learning from mistakes, so the upwards trend is definitely awesome! I would probably place that more in clinical, but quite honestly, I would inquire with the school as to how to classify it. Whichever one they don't classify it as, I would definitely consider getting some in the other field. Even if they do it as clinical, I would also try and do a bit more equine. A lot of it has to do with finding the right vets, so keep being persistent and asking more equine vets! If your interest is mixed animal, then I would definitely beef up (pun completely intended) your LA and focus a bit less on SA.

When it comes time for you to write PS and all that jazz, I would be happy to review it for you (as would many other SDNers). Overall, definitely on the right track, but there can definitely bet a few improvements!

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Okay, I am joining the "what are my chances" bandwagon.

I plan to start applying May 2017.

White, Female, 20 (21 in May)
NC Resident
Applying to NCSU and possibly 1 other (I haven't decided on another yet)

Cumulative GPA: ~3.45
Last 45: ~3.4
Science~3.4

Experience:
-300+ small animal clinic
-80 equine/research
-400+ animal experience as a kennel attendant and bather at a grooming facility
-60+ volunteering at a low income spay/neuter clinic
-I attended a breeding symposium at NCSU (10 hours)

-Member of the Honors College
-Collegiate Volleyball (2 years)
-Travel Volleyball Coach
-Pre-vet club
-Volunteer high school volleyball assistant coach

**I am attending the FAMES symposium this weekend at NCSU, and am riding along with a swine vet from Prestage Farms over spring break.**

Chances of getting in? I come from a very rural area. A girl from my area was just accepted to NCSU on her first try.

Your GPAs are a little below average, but not bad. I recommend buckling down and rocking the GRE to compensate a little. I would definitely try to get more veterinary experience. There are people who get in with less than 1,000 hours, but there are also people who apply with thousands. Lower amounts of hours are definitely improved with a diversity of experience. If you want to be a mixed animal vet, I would definitely work on getting some LA experience, especially if you plan to write about that desire in your personal statement (vet schools don't like when you say you want to do something without any experience in that sect of the field...I remember a girl on here who had awesome stats but had an issue with that, and I think it was at NCState). Research is always a plus...my research involvement came up a lot when I interviewed. Good luck!

 

[mrd006]

Your GPAs are a little below average, but not bad. I recommend buckling down and rocking the GRE to compensate a little. I would definitely try to get more veterinary experience. There are people who get in with less than 1,000 hours, but there are also people who apply with thousands. Lower amounts of hours are definitely improved with a diversity of experience. If you want to be a mixed animal vet, I would definitely work on getting some LA experience, especially if you plan to write about that desire in your personal statement (vet schools don't like when you say you want to do something without any experience in that sect of the field...I remember a girl on here who had awesome stats but had an issue with that, and I think it was at NCState). Research is always a plus...my research involvement came up a lot when I interviewed. Good luck!

If I count the equine as clinical experience, would you recommend getting more large animal this summer or research? I am doing summer school for the second half of summer so I would really only have time to do one of those.

 

[mrd006]

Vet schools love to see upwards trends and learning from mistakes, so the upwards trend is definitely awesome! I would probably place that more in clinical, but quite honestly, I would inquire with the school as to how to classify it. Whichever one they don't classify it as, I would definitely consider getting some in the other field. Even if they do it as clinical, I would also try and do a bit more equine. A lot of it has to do with finding the right vets, so keep being persistent and asking more equine vets! If your interest is mixed animal, then I would definitely beef up (pun completely intended) your LA and focus a bit less on SA.

When it comes time for you to write PS and all that jazz, I would be happy to review it for you (as would many other SDNers). Overall, definitely on the right track, but there can definitely bet a few improvements!

Thank you! I would want to practice small animal and equine, so I do need to work on finding another equine veterinarian.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

If I count the equine as clinical experience, would you recommend getting more large animal this summer or research? I am doing summer school for the second half of summer so I would really only have time to do one of those.

That's a hard one. With the amount of hours you have, I'd probably focus on getting more veterinary experience IMO. Equine and small animal isn't typically what we refer to as "Mixed animal." If your careful how you express your interests in your personal statement, it probably wouldn't be an issue, though.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Thank you! I would want to practice small animal and equine, so I do need to work on finding another equine veterinarian.

Okay. So you aren't interested in SA/LA (I.e. Dogs, cats, cows, small ruminants, horses). I wouldn't call this "mixed animal." While, technically it kind of is, SA/Equine isn't what most people aren't referring to when they say they are interested in mixed practice. Just say you are interested in both Equine and SA. I know that's kind of picky, but some schools care about these kinds of little things...

Edit: I found the thread...

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/successful-applicant-stats-class-of-2020.1171065/page-4

It was a girl who applied to NCState. Read thinkpawsitives post. It just stands out in my mind because I found it surprising that they cared so much given the experience she had...

 

[mrd006]

Okay. So you aren't interested in SA/LA (I.e. Dogs, cats, cows, small ruminants, horses). I wouldn't call this "mixed animal." While, technically it kind of is, SA/Equine isn't what most people aren't referring to when they say they are interested in mixed practice. Just say you are interested in both Equine and SA. I know that's kind of picky, but some schools care about these kinds of little things...

Edit: I found the thread...

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/successful-applicant-stats-class-of-2020.1171065/page-4

It was a girl who applied to NCState. Read thinkpawsitives post. It just stands out in my mind because I found it surprising that they cared so much given the experience she had...

That is interesting. Thank you! I know for sure I want to do small animal, but also really enjoyed my time working with horses. Since there is not any equine vets in my area, I want to do horses to help with the need but don't want to do them exclusively. Now I have a few tough decisions to make. I need to gain some large animal experience, but I need to decide in which field.

 

[canine_equine13]

Okay, I am joining the "what are my chances" bandwagon.

I plan to start applying May 2017.

White, Female, 20 (21 in May)
NC Resident
Applying to NCSU and possibly 1 other (I haven't decided on another yet)

Cumulative GPA: ~3.45
Last 45: ~3.4
Science~3.4

Experience:
-300+ small animal clinic
-80 equine/research
-400+ animal experience as a kennel attendant and bather at a grooming facility
-60+ volunteering at a low income spay/neuter clinic
-I attended a breeding symposium at NCSU (10 hours)

-Member of the Honors College
-Collegiate Volleyball (2 years)
-Travel Volleyball Coach
-Pre-vet club
-Volunteer high school volleyball assistant coach

**I am attending the FAMES symposium this weekend at NCSU, and am riding along with a swine vet from Prestage Farms over spring break.**

Chances of getting in? I come from a very rural area. A girl from my area was just accepted to NCSU on her first try.

Hi there! I'm still new to this and learning how to use it hah, but I was reading some of your comments and it seems like we have some things in common. I am Female as well, 20, but an Ohio resident. A lot of people on here/applying I feel are in their mid 20's...unless that's just something I've noticed in my short time scanning through forums. What caught my eye is that I also for sure know I want to do small animal, but have really enjoyed equine as well (not so much a bovine person haha I tolerate that aspect). As far as your chances getting in, just comparing to myself, I guess I agree with what other people have said (more lg animal hours, GRE, etc..).

Speaking of, have you started studying for the GRE? I have a little, but not quite sure how to go about it the right way without spending a ridiculous amount on a special class or something. Standardized tests have never been one of my strong points, but I'm just hoping for median scores considering they take so much more into consideration then the GRE.

 

[Coopah]

Hi there! I'm still new to this and learning how to use it hah, but I was reading some of your comments and it seems like we have some things in common. I am Female as well, 20, but an Ohio resident. A lot of people on here/applying I feel are in their mid 20's...unless that's just something I've noticed in my short time scanning through forums. What caught my eye is that I also for sure know I want to do small animal, but have really enjoyed equine as well (not so much a bovine person haha I tolerate that aspect). As far as your chances getting in, just comparing to myself, I guess I agree with what other people have said (more lg animal hours, GRE, etc..).

Speaking of, have you started studying for the GRE? I have a little, but not quite sure how to go about it the right way without spending a ridiculous amount on a special class or something. Standardized tests have never been one of my strong points, but I'm just hoping for median scores considering they take so much more into consideration then the GRE.

A lot of people on here suggest magoosh. You should check it out if you're worried. Good luck!

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Hi there! I'm still new to this and learning how to use it hah, but I was reading some of your comments and it seems like we have some things in common. I am Female as well, 20, but an Ohio resident. A lot of people on here/applying I feel are in their mid 20's...unless that's just something I've noticed in my short time scanning through forums. What caught my eye is that I also for sure know I want to do small animal, but have really enjoyed equine as well (not so much a bovine person haha I tolerate that aspect). As far as your chances getting in, just comparing to myself, I guess I agree with what other people have said (more lg animal hours, GRE, etc..).

Speaking of, have you started studying for the GRE? I have a little, but not quite sure how to go about it the right way without spending a ridiculous amount on a special class or something. Standardized tests have never been one of my strong points, but I'm just hoping for median scores considering they take so much more into consideration then the GRE.

Definitely second magoosh. I had a lot of success with it helping me

 

[2neurotic4me]

EDIT: please don't quote! Too much personal info. Would appreciate it if people could tag me instead. Thanks!
Hi all, hoping to get a little help. I didn't think this warranted a new thread though this might not be the most appropriate posting place.

The TLDR; PART:
I have been pre-med/MD-PhD for a lot of years. I have always been much more drawn to the research side of the equation, but I go back and forth regularly between medicine and science- medicine has always been my interest and desired profession, but science really grips me deep to my core. Despite my desire to become a healer, I do not think I want to deal with the social environment/bureaucracy of MD life. After years of preparing and having genuine reasons for pursuing medicine and physician scientist research, this is sort of a shocking thing for me to admit to myself.

I have also thought in the past about veterinary medicine, as medicine itself was my interest, but I wanted to make a more "direct" impact to human health instead, so I forgot about it. However, my research interests and desire to be in a medical field relevant to my career goals and my long-standing emotional/community reasons for pursuing medicine have made me strongly consider applying to vet school. Though I feel like an expert in applying to medical school, I am completely clueless about vet school, and have been out of college for a few years and cannot simply see an advisor.

I want to end up researching infectious disease spread through zoonotic spillovers, and I want to be split between the field and the lab. The ecological aspects of microbiology and animal populations interests me the most, especially in the growing problems of climate change, antibiotics in water sources, etc. My goal would be to eventually to work as a public health researcher, and ideally working for the CDC (I would love to be an EIS officer). I can talk a bit more about these things above to clarify (I have thought a LOT more about these things than I am coming across as) just trying to limit the TLDR.

WAMC part (and how can I get relevant experience so late?)

My goal is to go to Davis and be involved with their ecological research and especially the PREDICT grant research program. I would ideally want to be a VSTP student, but if it is literally impossible for me to be accepted to vet school, I am definitely applying for PhD programs there this fall.

GPA: 3.8
GRE: TBD in a few months, but I scored 90th percentile on the MCAT so I'm not terribly concerned.
Experience: I have no vet experience, which I don't know how to work on in January. I have throughout the years done things like feral cat rescue volunteering in neighborhoods and helped out shelters, but nothing official. I was too myopically focused on science and medical school! Does anyone have suggestions for experience, especially as it relates to my interest in wildlife zoonotic diseases and public health? I have tried to figure out how to participate in the raccoon vaccination efforts in my area or Audubon society, but it is difficult when I have no vet experience (and Google isn't always helpful!).

If I can't get this done this year, is it possible for me to enter a VSTP after I have begun my PhD?

Research:
-My past has been focused on bench research (biochemistry and biophysics), and by end of next year will have been through 6 years of research. I might have a couple of first-author pubs by this fall along with co-authorships.
-I did an Honors thesis in undergrad
-I have won many research fellowships
-I received an NIH fellowship to perform research on one of the campuses for a few years
-Currently waiting to hear back about an African Fulbright research scholarship for next year, which I have already been nominated as a national semifinalist.

Leadership and other ECs:
-Significant leadership experiences, that I don't want to describe to avoid breaking anonymity. I have led several large and small groups, basically. I have also created a STEM outreach programs at my university
-Significant volunteering in STEM outreach and education to rural and underprivileged communities
-Several TAing/instructing of upper division science courses
-Couple hundred hours of clinical volunteering
-Other volunteering in the community throughout my life (soup kitchens, etc)

Any advice helps. I would like both help and brutal honesty about my situation (and I can clarify anything).

 

[SummerTheLynx]

EDIT: please don't quote! Too much personal info. Would appreciate it if people could tag me instead. Thanks!

Just quoting for you to get the notification .

One thing that I will start over. Being a researcher comes along with its whole set of bureaucracy (definitely a different type then that associated with being a clinician, but certainly a bureaucracy). So it definitely sounds based off your description that you are very One Health Focused, which is awesome (I am very big into the One Health side of things).

One thing I will mention is if I am thinking of the job you want at the CDC (and I may be mistaken as there are a couple levels of jobs there), it is hyper competitive. Like we are talking about people from all of the medical/research/ecological professions competing for the same job. Even being the best veterinarian applying for the job by no means guarantees you for the job. One girl at my school has her goals set on that one position, but it's a very tough road.

So I am not an expert on Davis at all, and I will preface with that (and I highly advise, at the beginning of this, to give their admissions person a quick call to schedule a meeting, I know most schools are happy to meet with potential candidates). Given that, your GPA looks great, and assuming science and last 45 gpa are on par with that, you will have no problems on that front. Vet schools work a bit differently than med school admissions given that there is a bit more emphasis placed on experience. Each school usually has some minimum threshold on the number of veterinary hours.

So with regards to experience, this is where you may not be the biggest fan. You definitely want to get experience in the area that you are looking to focus on. But vet schools are looking for you to also get experience in a diverse amount of areas: Small animal, large animal, equine, exotics, research, etc. So, a very easy first place to start would be to do some work/some shadowing at a small animal practice, an equine practice, and a large animal practice. Shelters are very iffy in terms of veterinary experience, as you need to be working directly underneath a vet during your time there, and if a vet is not there while you are getting your hours, its not veterinary experience (and is classifed on VMCAS as animal experience instead).

What I would say is this summer should be dedicated strictly to getting hours in clinics. You are good on the research front right now, so I would highly suggest against spending that time on research if vet school is your goal.

Very few programs allow for you to start a PhD program before or after you start your veterinary training (it is usually a concurrent thing, such that you apply at the same time as your veterinary training). I know that Kansas and Missouri will both allow it under special circumstances. Outside of that, I am inclined based off things that I have heard that special exceptions can be made at VMR based on how you track, but do not know about others that allow it happening at different times.

The other question I have for you is why are you looking to do a veterinary program specifically? I guess, how do you think getting a veterinary degree will benefit your end career goal? (and I don't mean this rhetorically at all, I just am trying to get a feel for what you are looking to get out of this this way I can give appropriate advice).

I am currently in a DVM/PhD program and am absolutely loving it. I am usually pretty good about answering this thread (or thanks to @finnickthedog now I will be almost perfect about answer here), however, feel free to message me if I am not answering, I will usually respond to those quicker.

 

[Coopah]

Just quoting for you to get the notification .

One thing that I will start over. Being a researcher comes along with its whole set of bureaucracy (definitely a different type then that associated with being a clinician, but certainly a bureaucracy). So it definitely sounds based off your description that you are very One Health Focused, which is awesome (I am very big into the One Health side of things).

One thing I will mention is if I am thinking of the job you want at the CDC (and I may be mistaken as there are a couple levels of jobs there), it is hyper competitive. Like we are talking about people from all of the medical/research/ecological professions competing for the same job. Even being the best veterinarian applying for the job by no means guarantees you for the job. One girl at my school has her goals set on that one position, but it's a very tough road.

So I am not an expert on Davis at all, and I will preface with that (and I highly advise, at the beginning of this, to give their admissions person a quick call to schedule a meeting, I know most schools are happy to meet with potential candidates). Given that, your GPA looks great, and assuming science and last 45 gpa are on par with that, you will have no problems on that front. Vet schools work a bit differently than med school admissions given that there is a bit more emphasis placed on experience. Each school usually has some minimum threshold on the number of veterinary hours.

So with regards to experience, this is where you may not be the biggest fan. You definitely want to get experience in the area that you are looking to focus on. But vet schools are looking for you to also get experience in a diverse amount of areas: Small animal, large animal, equine, exotics, research, etc. So, a very easy first place to start would be to do some work/some shadowing at a small animal practice, an equine practice, and a large animal practice. Shelters are very iffy in terms of veterinary experience, as you need to be working directly underneath a vet during your time there, and if a vet is not there while you are getting your hours, its not veterinary experience (and is classifed on VMCAS as animal experience instead).

What I would say is this summer should be dedicated strictly to getting hours in clinics. You are good on the research front right now, so I would highly suggest against spending that time on research if vet school is your goal.

Very few programs allow for you to start a PhD program before or after you start your veterinary training (it is usually a concurrent thing, such that you apply at the same time as your veterinary training). I know that Kansas and Missouri will both allow it under special circumstances. Outside of that, I am inclined based off things that I have heard that special exceptions can be made at VMR based on how you track, but do not know about others that allow it happening at different times.

The other question I have for you is why are you looking to do a veterinary program specifically? I guess, how do you think getting a veterinary degree will benefit your end career goal? (and I don't mean this rhetorically at all, I just am trying to get a feel for what you are looking to get out of this this way I can give appropriate advice).

I am currently in a DVM/PhD program and am absolutely loving it. I am usually pretty good about answering this thread (or thanks to @finnickthedog now I will be almost perfect about answer here), however, feel free to message me if I am not answering, I will usually respond to those quicker.

@2neurotic4me so I have been accepted to Davis this year and can fill in the experience portion Davis is looking for. Disclaimer, I am not an admissions personal, and you should check with the admissions about ALL specific details. Davis specifically wants a minimum of 180 veterinary experience hours, under the direct supervision of a veterinarian. However once you have that, they don't look at it again. They choose their candidates from strictly numbers. They consider the last 45 credit hours GPA first, then your science GPA, then your quantitative GRE score, and then how you letters or recommendation rank you. As a note, you do need at LEAST one letter from a veterinarian, so while that 180 is a minimum it would take a lot more to get a good letter of recommendation. Finally the top percentage of applicants are invited for an interview which is an MMI. I would recommend googling this if you've never heard of it before. They accept the top 145 applicants that rank in the MMI. That score is the only thing they look at. They may change this process in the coming years, but that is how it works normally. I would second @SummerTheLynx and ask why you want to be a veterinarian specifically, why wouldn't an MD do for the research your trying to accomplish? Best of luck to you.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

@2neurotic4me
Do you need a DVM to accomplish your career goals? DVM= student loans. PhD=tuition waiver plus stipend. Huge difference there. If you don't want to be a clinician and you don't need a DVM to accomplish your career goals, perhaps consider the benefits of only doing a PhD...

 

[supershorty]

@2neurotic4me , how would having either an MD or a DVM help you with your career goals? I read through your post, but it doesn't seem like you're actually interested in practicing medicine. Why wouldn't you just go for a PhD?

I don't know about MD/PhD applications, but I know when I was doing my interviews for DVM/PhD spots, I was asked that question repeatedly in various forms (why would you need a DVM? Why would you need a PhD? Why do you want to do the 2 together? Do you have any idea of what you're taking on in a dual degree program? Why do you want to do a dual degree? Why do you need to do a dual degree? ... to name a few).

Editing to add that like @SummerTheLynx , I'm in a dual program and would be happy to answer questions - and my school does allow you to apply for the PhD portion while you're a regular DVM student - but I'm not sure if the DVM or MD would be necessary for what you want to do.

 

[2neurotic4me]

Just quoting for you to get the notification ....

@2neurotic4me so I have been accepted to Davis this year and can fill in the experience portion Davis is looking for. Disclaimer, I am not an admissions personal, and you should check with the admissions about ALL specific details. Davis specifically wants a minimum of 180 veterinary experience hours, under the direct supervision of a veterinarian. However once you have that, they don't look at it again. They choose their candidates from strictly numbers. They consider the last 45 credit hours GPA first, then your science GPA, then your quantitative GRE score, and then how you letters or recommendation rank you. As a note, you do need at LEAST one letter from a veterinarian, so while that 180 is a minimum it would take a lot more to get a good letter of recommendation. Finally the top percentage of applicants are invited for an interview which is an MMI. I would recommend googling this if you've never heard of it before. They accept the top 145 applicants that rank in the MMI. That score is the only thing they look at. They may change this process in the coming years, but that is how it works normally. I would second @SummerTheLynx and ask why you want to be a veterinarian specifically, why wouldn't an MD do for the research your trying to accomplish? Best of luck to you.

Do you need a DVM to accomplish your career goals? DVM= student loans. PhD=tuition waiver plus stipend. Huge difference there. If you don't want to be a clinician and you don't need a DVM to accomplish your career goals, perhaps consider the benefits of only doing a PhD...

@2neurotic4me , how would having either an MD or a DVM help you with your career goals? I read through your post, but it doesn't seem like you're actually interested in practicing medicine. Why wouldn't you just go for a PhD?

I don't know about MD/PhD applications, but I know when I was doing my interviews for DVM/PhD spots, I was asked that question repeatedly in various forms (why would you need a DVM? Why would you need a PhD? Why do you want to do the 2 together? Do you have any idea of what you're taking on in a dual degree program? Why do you want to do a dual degree? Why do you need to do a dual degree? ... to name a few).

Editing to add that like @SummerTheLynx , I'm in a dual program and would be happy to answer questions - and my school does allow you to apply for the PhD portion while you're a regular DVM student - but I'm not sure if the DVM or MD would be necessary for what you want to do.

Hi all, thanks for the responses. I appreciate it a lot.

For the questions about why I feel I need the dual degree I think has to come back to why I started pursuing MD/PhD to begin with. Besides the emotional reasons for wanting to practice medicine, I also realized through shadowing, reading papers and books, and talking with people that having the ability to practice medicine is generally needed if you want to do real field work. The more I have learned about working at the CDC seems to reflect this as well (especially the EIS program..). It also makes sense to me why this is the way it is. When I am in seminars/talking with experts/shadowing/reading about my field of interest, I realize that my lack of knowledge about how certain animal or human physiologies hinders me from being able to understand how people came to conclusions about how a disease spreads/crosses over in populations.

The reason I now I am reluctant to pursue an MD has to do not only with the beauracracy of hospitalist life (which answers your question @SummerTheLynx) but also my increasing understanding of the importance of the environment and animal health to human health. I know I want an ecological microbiology PhD (which is why Davis and Emory are my favorite programs!), and my interest in these fields has made me realize how much more important animal health is to human populations than is thought of in MD circles. When I consider what kind of field research I want to pursue, I imagine that being able to not only practice veterinary medicine will help study zoonotic diseases.

And again, the emotional reasons why I have had a lifelong connection to medicine (both human and animal) still exist, and often try to drag me away to becoming a practicing clinician. I just know that science always pulls me back, and I want to eventually be a public health researcher (marrying my commitment to science and health). I know I would prefer to work at a community level more frequently than constantly at a one-on-one level, telling me further that perhaps clinical practice isn't my best option. However, I still find that one on one time fulfilling and important (from my volunteer work), but I would prefer to spend most of my career solving community-level problems.

If you guys believe that I won't be trapped in a lab at the bench OR stuck only as a statistician with a PhD, and will be able to do field work, then I might have some of my fears assuaged. I still have the pretty pressing emotional reasons for wanting to practice SOME sort of medicine, but maybe in the future I can feed that through public health research. It is difficult for me to make these decisions since I feel that my interests are extremely specific at this point and I simply don't know what path would suit me best. It also doesn't help that I am sure that I would be happy with any of them. I want to just prepare myself as best possible for my field of interest while fulfilling my overarching emotional requirements (which are really seemed to be frowned upon in science...)

I also love working in teams, and don't particularly feel that I NEED to be able to have all the skills above (I can collaborate with an MD/DVM, etc). But I don't want to be excluded because of my lack of education.

I do definitely know what goes into dual degree programs, as I've been preparing for one for about 4 years. I know it is grueling and you HAVE to have a good reason to do both. For a long time, I had concluded that either an MD or a PhD would give me what I wanted to do, with me settling on a PhD for the reasons I explained above. But recently I have realized that I do have an interest in veterinary health and that such training would also benefit my research greatly.

Thanks again!

 

[2neurotic4me]

@mmmdreamerz not to be super whiny, but can you unquote me? I plan on eventually deleting my personal info above. I just thought it was useful for giving me advice.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

@mmmdreamerz not to be super whiny, but can you unquote me? I plan on eventually deleting my personal info above. I just thought it was useful for giving me advice.

Yep. Sorry. I read that...just force of habit

I think you definitely need to get some experience in vet med before you decide to pursue a DVM, that would be the first step to deciding. It sounds like you are considering a DVM as an alternative to an MD as a way to have a clinical degree despite wanting to pursue research. While DVM/PhDs dual degrees have their place, debt is an issue in vet med and I definitely would think hard if what you want to do actually requires a DVM (or even if you actually want a DVM).

 

[2neurotic4me]

Yep. Sorry. I read that...just force of habit

I think you definitely need to get some experience in vet med before you decide to pursue a DVM, that would be the first step to deciding. It sounds like you are considering a DVM as an alternative to an MD as a way to have a clinical degree despite wanting to pursue research. While DVM/PhDs dual degrees have their place, debt is an issue in vet med and I definitely would think hard if what you want to do actually requires a DVM (or even if you actually want a DVM).

No worries

It's weird, because I think it's more of a huge mental shift for me. I had just never considered DVM really, but when I think about the vets I have done research with and my animal volunteering experiences, I felt a lot happier and more at home. I went to undergrad at a state school that had a pretty good vet school, so I watched sheep birthed and used to hang around the cows. I don't really know why I didn't think about it. I definitely am not considering it as simply an alternative clinical degree.

Also, what kind of vet exposure would you recommend? I work fulltime as a researcher and definitely could not quit for a vet tech position. I am going to ask around for weekend shadowing, but ideally I would want something a bit more geared towards my interests and less in SA clinics near me. Most of my friends in undergrad did stuff directly with the vet school and went up to the Audubon society.

I agree I need experience! I just don't want to put off my PhD applications another year...and Davis's focus is definitely what interests me. It's weird (thought it does say right on their website) that they only really need 170 hours. That's very different than what my friends have done for vet school.

 

[SummerTheLynx]

I am going Ito disagree on the aspect of needing a DVM to require real field work. Several researchers at my undergrad that were engaged in serious field work were PhDs with no form of medical degree. If the EIS program is the one I am thinking of (and once again, I may be confusing which one it is), I agree with your assessment that the more qualifications you have, the better. But that comes from a place of being hypercompetitive to get the position. Theoretically, the programs that you engage in for PhD should require that experience. I know here that we have a bunch of PhD students that essentially do the vast majority of first year and parts of second year with us. (ours is 2 + 2, so a good chunk of the program), but they stop short of actually doing the clinical stuff, because that's less applicable for what they need. Another thing that I will mention is that a lot of the stuff (but not all) you are describing that you want to get out of your education sounds a lot more like what is gotten out of a masters in public health degree than a veterinary degree.

Have you looked into whether Davis will allow you to start a PhD at a separate time then vet school? Have you also double checked that this PhD is on their approved list (if they have one). My fiancee got rejected from UPenn's PhD concurrent with Vet med because they believed that ecological aspects were to far our far of the constraints of what they want done concurrently with vet med (or at least that's the explanation they provided her). You also hit on a big point there. This is not well regarded currently in MD circles. And the people making the decisions tend to have a medical background as opposed to a veterinary background. Funding and grants will be much more difficult from a vet med side of things when compared to the medical side (and its already not great for the med side of things either). If you are up for collaboration, then working with MDs is a great way to get funding. But I don't know your thoughts on relying on MDs for very large grants (and I am not saying its impossible to get a lot of money without MDs involved). I do believe that this culture was starting to change for the better, but with the way the government currently is, I am nervous that we are going to do a 180 in that regard.

I think that whether you are able to end up doing field work depends on how your PhD program is set up more than anything else. The PhD is the part that will actually prepare you to succeed in that, as you won't learn how to do (that type of) field work in vet medicine. On the other hand, I know a bunch of people that learned how to conduct effective field work through MPH programs.

I guess what needs to be bridged here, and what an admissions officer where you would be seeking admissions, is why do you need the clinical part of vet med, and not just the basic physiology and infectious disease courses of veterinary medicine? Remember that you can get these with PhD courses (I am taking a MD radiology course this upcoming year, definitely not in med school). I think it's more about choosing the PhD program that offers things that fits you needs, or allows you to be flexible to fit your needs!

 

[SummerTheLynx]

No worries

It's weird, because I think it's more of a huge mental shift for me. I had just never considered DVM really, but when I think about the vets I have done research with and my animal volunteering experiences, I felt a lot happier and more at home. I went to undergrad at a state school that had a pretty good vet school, so I watched sheep birthed and used to hang around the cows. I don't really know why I didn't think about it. I definitely am not considering it as simply an alternative clinical degree.

Also, what kind of vet exposure would you recommend? I work fulltime as a researcher and definitely could not quit for a vet tech position. I am going to ask around for weekend shadowing, but ideally I would want something a bit more geared towards my interests and less in SA clinics near me. Most of my friends in undergrad did stuff directly with the vet school and went up to the Audubon society.

I agree I need experience! I just don't want to put off my PhD applications another year...and Davis's focus is definitely what interests me. It's weird (thought it does say right on their website) that they only really need 170 hours. That's very different than what my friends have done for vet school.

Commenting off of this, you should be done with your research by the end of this school year, and dedicating your summer to shadowing/working at a vet hospital. Weekend shadowing can work for now, but you aren't getting much experience through doing that (in terms of total hours). If you are not willing to do that, then I think you have your answer of where your priorities lie. You should ideally get exposure with small animal, horses, and large animals, as you will need to work with all of those throughout your time at vet school. The issue with not gearing yourself towards clinical experiences and with what you want to do, is that vet school is going to entail clinical work, not really what you personally want to do. I guess this is why many of us are suggesting you think about why you want to do veterinary medicine, and what benefit you will realistically get out of it.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

No worries

It's weird, because I think it's more of a huge mental shift for me. I had just never considered DVM really, but when I think about the vets I have done research with and my animal volunteering experiences, I felt a lot happier and more at home. I went to undergrad at a state school that had a pretty good vet school, so I watched sheep birthed and used to hang around the cows. I don't really know why I didn't think about it. I definitely am not considering it as simply an alternative clinical degree.

Also, what kind of vet exposure would you recommend? I work fulltime as a researcher and definitely could not quit for a vet tech position. I am going to ask around for weekend shadowing, but ideally I would want something a bit more geared towards my interests and less in SA clinics near me. Most of my friends in undergrad did stuff directly with the vet school and went up to the Audubon society.

I agree I need experience! I just don't want to put off my PhD applications another year...and Davis's focus is definitely what interests me. It's weird (thought it does say right on their website) that they only really need 170 hours. That's very different than what my friends have done for vet school.

I think you need to think about what you just said...you wouldn't want to put off your PhD application to get the needed experience for vet school. If you really wanted to go to vet school, don't you think you'd be more willing to be the best candidate possible? Most people who want to do DVM/PhD programs have been working for years to have a solid application, and have a lot of experience in both research and vet med. I just think you need to do some honest soul searching about what you want your career to be and what the best path to it is.

 

[2neurotic4me]

Commenting off of this, you should be done with your research by the end of this school year, and dedicating your summer to shadowing/working at a vet hospital. Weekend shadowing can work for now, but you aren't getting much experience through doing that (in terms of total hours). If you are not willing to do that, then I think you have your answer of where your priorities lie. You should ideally get exposure with small animal, horses, and large animals, as you will need to work with all of those throughout your time at vet school. The issue with not gearing yourself towards clinical experiences and with what you want to do, is that vet school is going to entail clinical work, not really what you personally want to do. I guess this is why many of us are suggesting you think about why you want to do veterinary medicine, and what benefit you will realistically get out of it.

I agree with the priorities reflection. If I win the research Fulbright i will definitely do that...but I've been planning for that much longer than this!

I'll have to start doing real vet experience instead of animal experience.

 

[2neurotic4me]

I think you need to think about what you just said...you wouldn't want to put off your PhD application to get the needed experience for vet school. If you really wanted to go to vet school, don't you think you'd be more willing to be the best candidate possible? Most people who want to do DVM/PhD programs have been working for years to have a solid application, and have a lot of experience in both research and vet med. I just think you need to do some honest soul searching about what you want your career to be and what the best path to it is.

Yep! I agree. Just investigating my options. Since I have been involved with animal rescues for so many years I should have thought about it long ago. Oops.

 

[supershorty]

Yep. Sorry. I read that...just force of habit

I think you definitely need to get some experience in vet med before you decide to pursue a DVM, that would be the first step to deciding. It sounds like you are considering a DVM as an alternative to an MD as a way to have a clinical degree despite wanting to pursue research. While DVM/PhDs dual degrees have their place, debt is an issue in vet med and I definitely would think hard if what you want to do actually requires a DVM (or even if you actually want a DVM).

To piggyback off this, I think(?) there are fewer DVM/PhD spots compared to MD/PhD, and there's less funding for them. I understand the reasoning behind thinking of the DVM, but the MD might be the better option in this case.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

To piggyback off this, I think(?) there are fewer DVM/PhD spots compared to MD/PhD, and there's less funding for them. I understand the reasoning behind thinking of the DVM, but the MD might be the better option in this case.

To further piggyback off THIS lol, there's definitely a difference in research impact between MD and and DVM dual degrees...which can matter depending on future goals

 

[2neurotic4me]

To further piggyback off THIS lol, there's definitely a difference in research impact between MD and and DVM dual degrees...which can matter depending on future goals

I've noticed this too...but do you want to expand so I don't assume we have the same opinion?

 

[SummerTheLynx]

I've noticed this too...but do you want to expand so I don't assume we have the same opinion?

Looking at this from a purely objective standpoint, you can look at impact factors for journals you would imagine posting in for human medicine vs. veterinary medicine and see what the differences are. I will let you handle that one on your own, and you can draw your own conclusions.