2012-2013 Washington University in St. Louis Application Thread

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elevenses said:
Can any current students comment about how the merit scholarship selection process works? I see that a few applicants this cycle have already received full-tuition scholarships, but I see on the website that most of the scholarships are supposed to be assigned in early May. I suppose I am sort of hoping that we accepted students won't actually have to wait that long to find out if we have been selected.
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When I applied (a couple of years ago) they had us write a short essay about "What a scholarship would mean to you" towards the end of February, and I then I received mine right before the May 15 deadline (though I think many others were before this). So, unfortunately, you may have to wait that long, but trust me, it's worth the wait! Getting your 1098-T in the mail and seeing 50,000 that never came out of your pocket is pretty surreal. 🙂
 
elevenses said:
Can any current students comment about how the merit scholarship selection process works? I see that a few applicants this cycle have already received full-tuition scholarships, but I see on the website that most of the scholarships are supposed to be assigned in early May. I suppose I am sort of hoping that we accepted students won't actually have to wait that long to find out if we have been selected.
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When I was applying 3 years ago, I had much the same experience as MDub. I ended up with a nice scholarship, but wasn't offered it until May 13th. I know this was because someone who had been offered it previously withdrew and gave up the scholarship, and I had been on a scholarship waitlist of sorts. We all had to write the "what would it mean to you" essay, and then as the year went on, the admissions office informed people that they wouldn't be receiving merit money. So no news was good news. After second look, I basically wrote a letter of intent to WashU contingent on me receiving some type of scholarship from them to make it more affordable and it all ended up working out.

Though if I remember correctly, last year they didn't do the essay thing, so I'm not sure if people ever heard that they weren't eligible for merit money anymore. Someone in first year currently will have to answer that.

But I believe they offer most the available scholarships prior to second look, and then as people withdraw to go to other schools, they offer them to new people, or split them up and offer a smaller amount to more people. Hope this helps!
 
ksmi117 said:
Though if I remember correctly, last year they didn't do the essay thing, so I'm not sure if people ever heard that they weren't eligible for merit money anymore. Someone in first year currently will have to answer that.

But I believe they offer most the available scholarships prior to second look, and then as people withdraw to go to other schools, they offer them to new people, or split them up and offer a smaller amount to more people. Hope this helps!
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I can confirm they didn't do the essay thing last year, and that some students get offered scholarships relatively late (maybe even on the waitlist).
 
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chronicidal said:
I can confirm they didn't do the essay thing last year, and that some students get offered scholarships relatively late (maybe even on the waitlist).
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Interesting. My fingers are crossed. Thanks.
 
Any possibility of more decisions Friday night? Or is it next week? Just asking for friends!
 
Man, I'd been so good about avoiding this thread for the past 3 months (since my interview on 11/8) and yet here I am. I guess no news is good news, since they seemingly haven't rejected me yet, but I'd really rather just know now, since in all likelihood I'll be in tears either way.

Anyway, congrats to everyone who's been accepted so far, and hopefully I'll get to meet you all this fall! :xf:
 
There won't be any post-interview rejections until March, right?
 
wangers5270 said:
all's quiet on the washu front for a friday night...😴
my friend is like omgomgomgomgomgomgomgstress right now. she like won't stop talking about the anticipation, but I'm so excited for her and everybody else!!!
good luck for those waiting to hear back tonight! :luck::luck::luck:
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Are you sure there is going to be an update tonight and not next week? (I hope it is today btw!)
 
Rejected Pre-interview. Snail Mail. Good luck to everybody else!
 
PsychOut13 said:
Are you sure there is going to be an update tonight and not next week? (I hope it is today btw!)
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I'm wondering the same thing, and definitely hoping it's tonight too of course!! Is a specific Friday night of each month an established pattern?
 
I suppose getting an answer today when I interviewed on Monday is a bit much to ask...

😳

Just let me love you, WashU.
 
c said:
I referred to 5 years of previous threads, and it looks like the committee meets every 2 weeks on Fridays starting mid-January. so mid Jan, late Jan, mid Feb, late Feb. I think in 2009 and 2010 there were some acceptances released on January 29, February 12, and February 26ish, but I referred to so many I forget which year it was. There were some reported on January 26 this year, so I'm thinking February 9 and February 23 seem likely for people to hear back. I guess 12am CST will confirm whether this holds precedent to previous years! otherwise, maybe February 16 and March 2 may be the days. mid-March is when everyone not accepted will hear about waitlist/rejections post-interview. we can safely assume that it will be tonight and the 23rd, or the 16th and the 2nd, so look out for reported acceptances tonight!

that was a hopefully thorough yet incredibly long info-packed post. sorry people 😍
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That's good to know. Thanks, wangers5270!
 
wangers5270 said:
I referred to 5 years of previous threads, and it looks like the committee meets every 2 weeks on Fridays starting mid-January. so mid Jan, late Jan, mid Feb, late Feb. I think in 2009 and 2010 there were some acceptances released on January 29, February 12, and February 26ish, but I referred to so many I forget which year it was. There were some reported on January 26 this year, so I'm thinking February 9 and February 23 seem likely for people to hear back. I guess 12am CST will confirm whether this holds precedent to previous years! otherwise, maybe February 16 and March 2 may be the days. mid-March is when everyone not accepted will hear about waitlist/rejections post-interview. we can safely assume that it will be tonight and the 23rd, or the 16th and the 2nd, so look out for reported acceptances tonight!

that was a hopefully thorough yet incredibly long info-packed post. sorry people 😍
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got it!!!! thank you so much, that's so helpful! here's to hoping that tonight will be the night!!
 
pranagirl said:
got it!!!! thank you so much, that's so helpful! here's to hoping that tonight will be the night!!
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Yeah, this post definitely gets me to check my application and email every hour...
 
wangers5270 said:
I referred to 5 years of previous threads, and it looks like the committee meets every 2 weeks on Fridays starting mid-January. so mid Jan, late Jan, mid Feb, late Feb. I think in 2009 and 2010 there were some acceptances released on January 29, February 12, and February 26ish, but I referred to so many I forget which year it was. There were some reported on January 26 this year, so I'm thinking February 9 and February 23 seem likely for people to hear back. I guess 12am CST will confirm whether this holds precedent to previous years! otherwise, maybe February 16 and March 2 may be the days. mid-March is when everyone not accepted will hear about waitlist/rejections post-interview. we can safely assume that it will be tonight and the 23rd, or the 16th and the 2nd, so look out for reported acceptances tonight!

that was a hopefully thorough yet incredibly long info-packed post. sorry people 😍

(fyi- before january, the committee does one release mid-nov and one release mid-dec, so in total there are 6 days that people hear back for acceptances if my calculations/predictions are correct. of course this doesn't include waitlist movement!)
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We can always count on Wangers for our historical acceptance information. :laugh: 😍😍



(Post ended in Wanger's style 😛)
 
Last cycle's thread showed no acceptances between late January and February 24 (which corresponds to Feb 22 for 2013).
 
what day to they waitlist/reject interviewees? hope i hear from them before that!
 
wangers5270 said:
Last year a wave of waitlists was released on 3/13, so probably around then. Another post around that time said they approximately accept 1/4, waitlist 1/2, and reject 1/4 after interviews. I assume all initial acceptance offers will be made by the end of the month, and then significant waitlist movement later in the spring. Hope that helps!

Edit: More fun historical info from the 2011-2012 thread for all of you (as the resident historical acceptance info provider, thanks Tots <3 😍 )

2/25 (Saturday AM): Several acceptances via status page
3/13: Waitlist announced
3/16: One acceptance reported
5/8: More merit scholarship calls by Dean Dodson
5/11: People started getting acceptance calls off the waitlist (yes, before 5/15!)
5/15: Those still on the waitlist received an email asking if they'd like to remain on it
5/23-5/25: Wave of acceptances off the waitlist
6/18: Another few acceptances

So, expect a similar timeline this year. This should hopefully helps save others time from reading last year's thread with centralized info
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Thanks so much! This is awesome!
 
I know the first year is P/F and the second is some combo of grades but does anyone know if the grade cut offs are pre-set or curved based on class performance?
 
Sea Otter said:
I know the first year is P/F and the second is some combo of grades but does anyone know if the grade cut offs are pre-set or curved based on class performance?
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My understanding is that the grades are by cut-off, so you're not necessarily competing against your peers.
 
scruffy821 said:
My understanding is that the grades are by cut-off, so you're not necessarily competing against your peers.
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I can also confirm that grades are not curved. I was told this by both current students as well as admissions staff when I interviewed.
 
Grades are by cut-off. Mostly >70 is Pass, >80 HP, and >90 H, but it varies with the class.

wangers5270 said:
That's what I've heard too! Chronicidal, please confirm 🙂
Something like 90+ is Honors, another range is High Pass, and then another range is Pass. They try to tier the class by thirds, but it ends up being half the class getting Honors, and most of the other half getting HP. IIRC from when I interviewed and talked to people at the Pizza Party.
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I think you're confusing class rank and grades. They've never announced to the classes (as far as I know) that they try to have our second year grades broken up into thirds. In almost every class, I'd say 60% or more of the class gets honors, most of the rest get HP, and a handful of people pass. But again, it's variable between classes.

Class rank is broken up into thirds. Based on grades, students are ranked and then broken into 3 groups. The deans try to break the groups at large gaps in scores so that a hundredth of a GPA point doesn't separate the first and second groups. So it works out that the top 2 thirds of the class usually contains at least 75% of the class. So "thirds" is a misnomer in class rank, but that is how they report it.
 
ksmi117 said:
Grades are by cut-off. Mostly >70 is Pass, >80 HP, and >90 H, but it varies with the class.



I think you're confusing class rank and grades. They've never announced to the classes (as far as I know) that they try to have our second year grades broken up into thirds. In almost every class, I'd say 60% or more of the class gets honors, most of the rest get HP, and a handful of people pass. But again, it's variable between classes.

Class rank is broken up into thirds. Based on grades, students are ranked and then broken into 3 groups. The deans try to break the groups at large gaps in scores so that a hundredth of a GPA point doesn't separate the first and second groups. So it works out that the top 2 thirds of the class usually contains at least 75% of the class. So "thirds" is a misnomer in class rank, but that is how they report it.
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My God, 60% of the class averages over 90% on exams?!
 
Like I said, it varies between courses. And it's quite possible that I'm overestimating. I don't have the actual breakdown of the grades in each class. A few teachers sent the breakdown out via email, and I'm kind of going by those but it's possible that those classes just had a higher than normal amount of people get honors. Also, not all the classes are based off of one test (though a few are). And obviously while the majority of the class may get honors in any one class, it's not the same people in every course.

I do know of one way to actually see the breakdown of grades for each course, and I can try and find that for y'all if you'd like more accurate information than me just extrapolating what I do know.
 
wangers5270 said:
Would you say the common conception in med school (or specifically at WashU) is that Honors = A, High Pass = B, and Pass = C? Or are people generally super happy to get Honors or HP on an exam? That goes for any of the years besides 2nd year. I don't want to go through med school pressured to always aim for Honors :scared:

Not even from a competition standpoint, but more from a self-motivation standpoint (i.e. "I'd be super happy to get a HP on this exam and I won't be disappointed if I don't get Honors"). Just curious about your thoughts, ksmi117!
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Depends on the person and class I'd say. I know people who really wanted to get H in very single class. For me, there were a few classes where I was super happy getting an HP just because I knew that I didn't totally understand the material, nor did I really care to make myself crazy trying to understand it. And there are people who just didn't care much at all. Though I think those people are the minority for sure. No matter what school you go to, if there are grades, people will want the highest grade. That idea has been instilled in everyone since elementary school. But I think a lot of it is a pride thing. To match at a good residency your step 1 score matters waaaaay more than your preclinical grades, so it doesn't make a lot of sense for people to freak out about grades, but it still happens.

As far as clinical grades, I think it becomes less stressful for people and they don't worry about grades since a lot of grades are subjective and based on reviews from residents and attending. But of course there are always people who want to get an H in everything in clinicals too. I haven't been through this yet, so maybe what I've perceived is just based off the people I've talked to about it.
 
ksmi117 said:
I do know of one way to actually see the breakdown of grades for each course, and I can try and find that for y'all if you'd like more accurate information than me just extrapolating what I do know.
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That would be great 😀
 
Ok here we go. In second year, you take 17 graded courses. For my class:
  • 13 of those classes had an Honors % of 50% or higher.
  • 5 had an Honors % of 75% or higher.
  • The lowest Honors % was 25.2% (a class worth only a few credits where the Honors cutoff is a 92 on the one exam).
  • There were 3 classes in which everyone got either an H or HP.
  • And only 4 courses where the Pass % was greater than 10%.

So in summary, we're not graded on a curve, but by cutoffs that are actually attainable (with one notable exception). 🙂
 
ksmi117 said:
Ok here we go. In second year, you take 17 graded courses. For my class:
  • 13 of those classes had an Honors % of 50% or higher.
  • 5 had an Honors % of 75% or higher.
  • The lowest Honors % was 25.2% (a class worth only a few credits where the Honors cutoff is a 92 on the one exam).
  • There were 3 classes in which everyone got either an H or HP.
  • And only 4 courses where the Pass % was greater than 10%.

So in summary, we're not graded on a curve, but by cutoffs that are actually attainable (with one notable exception). 🙂
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Awesome, I appreciate the info! Sounds like y'all must do a lot of studying 😛
 
somethingdeep said:
Awesome, I appreciate the info! Sounds like y'all must do a lot of studying 😛
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I think every med student studies a lot. :laugh: But I really think the grade distribution is a product of both that and tests that focus on the main things lecturers taught, not minute details mentioned in passing.
 
ksmi117 said:
I think every med student studies a lot. :laugh: But I really think the grade distribution is a product of both that and tests that focus on the main things lecturers taught, not minute details mentioned in passing.
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Good to hear, thanks!
 
wangers5270 said:
Would you say the common conception in med school (or specifically at WashU) is that Honors = A, High Pass = B, and Pass = C? Or are people generally super happy to get Honors or HP on an exam? That goes for any of the years besides 2nd year. I don't want to go through med school pressured to always aim for Honors :scared:

Not even from a competition standpoint, but more from a self-motivation standpoint (i.e. "I'd be super happy to get a HP on this exam and I won't be disappointed if I don't get Honors"). Just curious about your thoughts, ksmi117!
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Some thoughts I had. Not directed at anyone in particular.

Preclinical grades are relatively unimportant for residency application. It's less important than clinical grades, Step 1 score, letters, your interview, and many other factors. Preclinical grades are so inflated, so many peer schools do not have preclinical grades, and it has such little perceived connection to performance as a resident that there's little point for program directors to scutinize them.

Preclinical grades are relatively unimportant for class rank/AOA (which matter a little more than preclinical grades to residencies). At WashU, 2nd year grades have half the weight of 3rd year grades in calculating rank/AOA eligibility. Strong 2nd year students are generally going to be strong 3rd year students, so even if the school got rid of 2nd year grades, class rank would not change that much.

Individual preclinical performance correlates with Step 1 performance, but on a school level, having grades vs. P/F does not change Step 1 averages.

Once you realize that your 2nd year grades have little "real" impact on your future, you also realize that the effect of grades is all in your head, and therefore should be in your control. Like you said, this issue is really more about a motivation standpoint than a competition standpoint or even a display of performance standpoint.

You could inflate the importance of grades and rely on that as external motivation to study really hard for that next test. You could also let it get to you and cause you to behave competitively, compare yourself against others, drop most of your extracurriculars, neglect your personal life, feel stressed, and cram cram cram.

Or you could step back, grow up, look at a slightly bigger picture, and not let it get to you. Study as much as you can motivate yourself to study on a day-to-day basis, to learn medicine, to do well on boards. Care enough to work hard, but not so much that you tie your self-worth and plans for the future to 17 little grades. Think about whether you can do that if you wonder whether you can be the happiest and be the best you can be at this school (for the 2nd year at least).
 
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