2019-2020 Utah

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scrubdownrubdown said:
I was the only woman interviewing today. Lots of Mormon men
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Can confirm, there was only one woman at the 10/7 interview! And I think I was the only non-Mormon too, since I was the only person to partake of the free coffee they had lmao

But MSAR shows that last year's class had more women than men, and the class is usually somewhat close to 50/50, so I'm hoping it's just a quirk of how they schedule interviews or something
 
gethprimarch said:
Can confirm, there was only one woman at the 10/7 interview! And I think I was the only non-Mormon too, since I was the only person to partake of the free coffee they had lmao

But MSAR shows that last year's class had more women than men, and the class is usually somewhat close to 50/50, so I'm hoping it's just a quirk of how they schedule interviews or something
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US News data say:
2345 men applied, 394 interviewed (16.8% of men applicants), 93 accepted,
1882 women applied, 177 interviewed (9.4% of women applicants) and 81 accepted.

Student body is 56.3% men.

Not sure which year this comes from, but that's a lot fewer women who are interviewed!
 
maha2018 said:
US News data say:
2345 men applied, 394 interviewed (16.8% of men applicants), 93 accepted,
1882 women applied, 177 interviewed (9.4% of women applicants) and 81 accepted.

Student body is 56.3% men.

Not sure which year this comes from, but that's a lot fewer women who are interviewed!
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That's really weird, why would they do it this way? Why not interview 50/50 and accept 50/50? Seems pretty discriminatory for no reason.

Utah, man...
 
gethprimarch said:
That's really weird, why would they do it this way? Why not interview 50/50 and accept 50/50? Seems pretty discriminatory for no reason.

Utah, man...
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It’s also strange that the post-II acceptance rate is about double for women (do men perform twice as bad on MMI??)
 
gethprimarch said:
Can confirm, there was only one woman at the 10/7 interview! And I think I was the only non-Mormon too, since I was the only person to partake of the free coffee they had lmao

But MSAR shows that last year's class had more women than men, and the class is usually somewhat close to 50/50, so I'm hoping it's just a quirk of how they schedule interviews or something
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Uh oh! I know who you are now. Have you heard anything yet? I only know of two people at BYU that got accepted so far. There could be a lot more but I only know the two and neither interviewed on our day.
 
acstylin said:
Uh oh! I know who you are now. Have you heard anything yet? I only know of two people at BYU that got accepted so far. There could be a lot more but I only know the two and neither interviewed on our day.
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Figured I might have doxed myself with the coffee comment lol

And no, haven't heard anything except what is posted here--and it looks like only September interviews have heard back so far.
 
gethprimarch said:
Figured I might have doxed myself with the coffee comment lol

And no, haven't heard anything except what is posted here--and it looks like only September interviews have heard back so far.
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Ooops! I don't know who you are actually. I thought you said you were the only female. I didn't pay attention to what anyone was drinking so now I'm lost again.
 
There were 4 women at the 9/27 interview and I thought that was pretty low haha
 
m1redsox said:
I heard a current MS2 guess it was about half
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I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s even a bit higher than that. If you’re looking for a super diverse class, Utah isn’t the best place. However, the admission committee does pretty good given their application pool is predominantly white LDS males.
 
scrubdownrubdown said:
Should we send thank you cards fot the U?
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I don’t know. I think Dr Chan probably gets a million and they probably wouldn’t phase him one way or another. The interviewers probably wouldn’t care either and it would be tough to find out who they were unless you can remember their names. I would lean towards not doing it, but if you feel strongly that you should, go for it.
 
The "where to stay" link on my applicant portal is not loading. Does anyone know which places were recommended, or if there were any discount codes? Trying to figure out where to stay for my interview.
 
zkp+h said:
I would argue it's not discriminatory because if you look at the number of applicants, it works out. More men applied than women, so it would make since from an equality standpoint that more men would be accepted. I have asked questions of admissions office folks at the U and they maintain that admissions decisions are based on merit and they do not base decisions on gender identity, race, ethnicity, etc. Making decisions based on merit is the most fair way in my opinion, though I do understand it is important to ensure that minority populations have a chance at representation.
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As per the US News data from Maha's post:

2345 men applied, 394 interviewed (16.8% of men applicants), 93 accepted,
1882 women applied, 177 interviewed (9.4% of women applicants) and 81 accepted.

So why would Utah interview almost 8% fewer women than men? Either there were 124 qualified women that didn't get an interview, or there were 160 unqualified men who received an interview that shouldn't have. I'm sure if you asked those 124 qualified women if they wanted a chance to prove themselves at an interview, they would jump at the chance. I don't see any reason why men and women would be offered interviews at different rates.

And saying "making decisions based on merit is the most fair" is narrow-sighted and too often tends to border on subtle bigotry. Think of it this way: if a woman or member of a minority group overcomes the institutional barriers to their success such that they have identical stats/ECs to say, a white male, how do they not have more merit than the white male--who has not had to overcome significant barriers to their success? Saying they should be considered equally shows an inability to understand simple context.
 
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gethprimarch said:
As per the US News data from Maha's post:

2345 men applied, 394 interviewed (16.8% of men applicants), 93 accepted,
1882 women applied, 177 interviewed (9.4% of women applicants) and 81 accepted.

So why would Utah interview almost 8% fewer women than men? Either there were 124 qualified women that didn't get an interview, or there were 160 unqualified men who received an interview that shouldn't have. I'm sure if you asked those 124 qualified women if they wanted a chance to prove themselves at an interview, they would jump at the chance. I don't see any reason why men and women would be offered interviews at different rates.

And saying "making decisions based on merit is the most fair" is narrow-sighted and too often tends to border on subtle bigotry. Think of it this way: if a woman or member of a minority group overcomes the institutional barriers to their success such that they have identical stats/ECs to say, a white male, how do they not have more merit than the white male--who has not had to overcome significant barriers to their success? Saying they should be considered equally shows an inability to understand simple context.
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I think the problem with this way of thinking is you are jumping to conclusions. You see less women than men and immediately believe it's sexism. In my opinion, you need to gather more data than "number of applicants men vs women". I'd like to see what the gender percentages are in-state vs out of state because we all know Utah gives a ton of preference to their in-state applicants. I believe that the difference is simply Utah culture. It is one of the more conservative states where women tend to choose family life over a career. I go to a Utah college now (BYU - where about 250/600ish Utah in-state med school applicants attend), and I literally do not know a single woman who applied this cycle. This was reflected in my interview as well. There were 10 white males from BYU, and not a single woman from BYU. The three women represented USC, Georgetown, and SUU.
My point here is I believe that a possible explanation for interviewing less women than men is because there are simply less in-state female applicants. However, if you're a woman, and you get an interview, it looks like you have a much better chance at acceptance than a male interviewee (81/177 vs 93/394). It is likely because U of U is aware of the disproportionality, and they are trying to correct it.
 
Point taken, we do seem to be working with incomplete data regarding the number of in-state female applicants and I did notice that the acceptance rate is higher for women.

Nevertheless, are the demographics really so skewed that the overwhelming majority of female applicants come from OOS? Can the University of Utah not reasonably interview an extra 100 in-state female applicants? Maybe so. But if you're right, then while it may not be evidence of sexism on the part of the Utah adcom, it does speak to the bigger problem regarding a lack of female representation in medicine in Utah--which, on its own, is evidence of systemic sexism in our state.

m1redsox said:
You see less women than men and immediately believe it's sexism...I believe that the difference is simply Utah culture. It is one of the more conservative states where women tend to choose family life over a career... and I literally do not know a single woman who applied this cycle. This was reflected in my interview as well. There were 10 white males from BYU, and not a single woman from BYU.
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This "cultural" difference is, in itself, fairly convincing evidence of sexism, at least in the institutional sense.
 
gethprimarch said:
Point taken, we do seem to be working with incomplete data regarding the number of in-state female applicants and I did notice that the acceptance rate is higher for women.

Nevertheless, are the demographics really so skewed that the overwhelming majority of female applicants come from OOS? Can the University of Utah not reasonably interview an extra 100 in-state female applicants? Maybe so. But if you're right, then while it may not be evidence of sexism on the part of the Utah adcom, it does speak to the bigger problem regarding a lack of female representation in medicine in Utah--which, on its own, is evidence of systemic sexism in our state.


This "cultural" difference is, in itself, fairly convincing evidence of sexism, at least in the institutional sense.
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I mean now this is a completely new argument. Is it institutional sexism, or is it the fact that the Mormon Church says a woman's primary role is as a nurturer of children? A female Mormon physician may experience some role strain there. I would say that is cultural difference, not necessarily sexism. However, I suppose if you're looking to be critical of someone's (62% of Utah) religion, you could argue that it is institutional sexism.

On another note, of course the overwhelming majority of female applicants come from out of state. There might be 600 IS applicants total this year and usually over 3000 OOS applicants. Asking the U of U to interview another 100 IS females could be asking them to interview every single IS female applicant hahah. That is simply not reasonably to ask of them. Can't we be content that female applicants have a 4.3% chance (81/1882) at acceptance and male applicants have a 4.0% (93/2345) chance? That's pretty dang close. It seems to me like this school is sincerely trying its best to overcome cultural differences.
 
m1redsox said:
I mean now this is a completely new argument. Is it institutional sexism, or is it the fact that the Mormon Church says a woman's primary role is as a nurturer of children? A female Mormon physician may experience some role strain there. I would say that is cultural difference, not necessarily sexism. However, I suppose if you're looking to be critical of someone's (62% of Utah) religion, you could argue that it is institutional sexism.

On another note, of course the overwhelming majority of female applicants come from out of state. There might be 600 IS applicants total this year and usually over 3000 OOS applicants. Asking the U of U to interview another 100 IS females could be asking them to interview every single IS female applicant hahah. That is simply not reasonably to ask of them. Can't we be content that female applicants have a 4.3% chance (81/1882) at acceptance and male applicants have a 4.0% (93/2345) chance? That's pretty dang close. It seems to me like this school is sincerely trying its best to overcome cultural differences.
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I intended it as a new argument--and yes, I would say that the Mormon Church defining a woman's role as anything other than whatever the hell she wants it to be is pretty much textbook sexism. Are they asking men to sacrifice their careers or shot at being a physician to stay home with kids? No. And the fact that 62% of Utah's population is Mormon does not mean the Mormon Church is above criticism.

And yes, I concede that the University of Utah is likely doing its best to overcome the sexism inherent in Utah--but I also don't think it's crazy to ask for more in-state or ties-to-the-area female interviews--maybe asking for 100 is a bit much--but they already interview like 70% of IS applicants anyway.
 
gethprimarch said:
I intended it as a new argument--and yes, I would say that the Mormon Church defining a woman's role as anything other than whatever the hell she wants it to be is pretty much textbook sexism. Are they asking men to sacrifice their careers or shot at being a physician to stay home with kids? No. And the fact that 62% of Utah's population is Mormon does not mean the Mormon Church is above criticism.

And yes, I concede that the University of Utah is likely doing its best to overcome the sexism inherent in Utah--but I also don't think it's crazy to ask for more in-state or ties-to-the-area female interviews--maybe asking for 100 is a bit much--but they already interview like 70% of IS applicants anyway.
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Lol thereeee it is... it's always equality and tolerance until someone else's beliefs contrast your own. Listen @gethprimarch I'm not interested in arguing with you about the beliefs of the Mormon church.
 
m1redsox said:
...the Mormon Church says a woman's primary role is as a nurturer of children.
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m1redsox said:
Lol thereeee it is... it's always equality and tolerance until someone else's beliefs contrast your own...
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Wasn't even arguing with you about the specific beliefs of the Mormon church--just dared to suggest that women should be able to define their societal roles themselves. My audacity!
 
Despite the differences in opinion here, I wish each of you all the best in your pursuit of acceptance to this great school! May we all be a little more open minded of the differences and diversity that define us. We all need to empathize with those who see the world differently than we do, religious or not.

Good luck and may we all eventually become the best physicians we can be for the sake of our future patients!
 
acstylin said:
I have talked to a LOT of women about this phenomenon in Utah. EVERY single one in my program that chose to avoid medicine WANTS to have the option to be a stay-at-home mom. If you pursue medicine, the $300k debt mandates you work whether you like it or not.
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This is the kind of sentiment that I was trying to hit on with my previous comments. Why can't a woman have a family and pursue a career in medicine? Or why can't the father stay at home and be the primary caregiver? It seems to be a false assumption that women can't have both a medical career and a family in Utah which I think contributes to why Utah has so few female applicants.

acstylin said:
It’s inappropriate to judge a religion and its members without understanding the culture. This is Med School 101. Haven’t you been writing essays about how empathetic and understanding you are of other cultures?
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How do you know I don't understand the culture? I used to be a member of the religion and I'm a UT resident--I understand it as well as any. Being intolerant of the intolerance inherent in Mormon culture doesn't make me without empathy, quite the opposite. And for the record, your "program" led the Salt Lake Tribune to a Pulitzer Prize when the Tribune reported that women on your campus were threatened with expulsion for reporting their sexual assault. Which is why I believe I have legitimate concerns with a "culture" that allows a repressive environment like that to thrive--why does that make me not empathetic?

I never intended to have this thread blow up over this, just wanted to have a frank discussion over the genesis of the gender disparity in medical school apps in Utah. I realize this forum is not the ideal place to have these discussions, and I realize we won't work out our differences here, but that doesn't mean I don't wish you all well. I really do sincerely wish everyone good luck this cycle!
 
Hello everyone, I’m a current MS1 and would simply like to drop in and let you all know that the gender equality discrepancy is something that is being talked about at administrative levels and between students and admissions. There is a proper discussion for a time and place but there are a million opportunities in medicine and especially in medical school to debate, but something we all need to do is respect each other. Please dampen the ego as you enter this portal to engage with others as peers and colleagues. It will serve you very well in the future since you very likely won’t be the smartest or hardest working in the room anymore. Best regards.
 
Aaannnnnddd this thread has turned into everything that’s wrong with UOUSOM. PEACE SUCKAS
 
Keep this thread professional. It is fine to discuss any possible negatives about the school, but if you want to discuss whether or not someone's entire religion is sexist, you can take that somewhere else. Like a different forum. This is not the place.

Further discussion of that topic will result in moderator action.
 
I am a female MS1 at UUSOM and gave an interview tour today to someone who mentioned this thread (as I haven't been on this site for over a year) and they subsequently asked me about the topics being discussed here. I just want to say that if anyone has genuine curiosities about studying at UUSOM or general questions about pros/cons please feel free to send me a message. I heard a lot of weird rumors before attending the school as well and hearsay is never the way to make or break your future medical education. I wish the best to all of you!
 
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Does anyone know how soon we can expect to hear back about post-interview decisions? I interviewed here on 10/21
 
I know there has been a little movement. I interviewed on 10/7 and I know of at least two people that were accepted from my group. I know of some solid candidates that interviewed earlier and later, both IS and OOS who haven’t heard. Don’t get too worked up. Utah takes a little longer- at least that’s the rumor.
 
penguin2996 said:
Does anyone know how soon we can expect to hear back about post-interview decisions? I interviewed here on 10/21
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We interviewed on the same day! I haven't heard anything but I'm honestly not expecting anything until late December/early January based on what I've been told by current students and last year's thread.
 
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