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WAMC: What Are My Chances
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What geography are you in? Are you flexible with location?
WAMC
*Reapplying with much clearer goals this cycle*
Education
B.A. in Psychology and Minor in African American Studies from UCLA
GPA 3.15 ( lots of personal hardship)
M.A. in Psychological Research from Cal State Long Beach
GPA : 4.0
Research Experience
5 yrs as a Full-time Senior Research Assistant for a company that creates Psychological Assessments (Data analysis, manuscript preparation, Training of new RA's, Easel/assessment building in Qualtrics, data entry, blog writing for company, member of Inaugural DEI committee to improve diversity in the assessments and the company overall)
2 Symposium Presentations (one with my Masters mentor and another invited talk at APA)
7 poster presentations ( 2 from undergrad labs 5 in the masters program, anticipate going to 3 more conferences to present next year)
-Won Psych Day research competition for "Best proposed graduate research"
-Co-authored a poster that won an award at an interpersonal Violence conference
2yrs of research in my Grad Mentor's lab on interpersonal violence and interactions with the criminal justice system for Ethnic Minority women. Also a member of a project in this lab concerning Sexual assault resources on college campuses
Masters thesis on Social Support as a resilience resource against postpartum depression for Black mothers who experienced intimate partner violence
Clinical/Volunteer Experience
4 years as a certified mental health advocate (California Black Women's Health Project).
4 years as a crisis counselor for Crisis Text Line
Teaching Experience
Graduate Assistant for a Research Methods course wherein I hold weekly office hours, grade research proposals, and tutor students. I also guest lectured the course.
Hired as a Lecturer in the Psych department at CSULB Teaching a course on interpersonal violence and victimization, lots of mentorship of students so far, weekly office hours, grading all on my own
LORs
Strong letters from my Graduate mentor (Community psych PhD many pubs) and my Director of Research (MSW, MPL) for my Research Assistant job, and one really good, maybe less personal LOR from my mentor from my undergraduate research experience (Postdoc at UCLA). I can also get a letter from my community psych professor from my master's program who influenced some of my research goals.
GRE
Not taking- Most schools I am interested in do not require it and I honestly can't afford the time cost (and cost cost lol) of prepping
Research Interest
I am especially interested in Clinical Psychology and Counseling programs. I am most interested in studying mental health care disparities for systemically marginalized folks (particularly Black people/Women), capitalizing on cultural resilience resources to combat systemic oppression, and developing interventions to improve perinatal mental health outcomes in Black women using participatory action research.
PhD Programs that I am especially interested in (no particular order)
University of Maryland- Counseling Psychology
George Washington University- Clinical Psychology
Howard University- Clinical Psychology
University of South Carolina- Clinical/Community Psych
Georgia State- Clinical Community
Rutgers University- Clinical Psychology
City University of New York- Clinical Psychology
NYU- Counseling Psychology
Boston College- Counseling Psychology
Would love your thoughts! I really want this to be my last application cycle 🤞
*Reapplying with much clearer goals this cycle*
Education
B.A. in Psychology and Minor in African American Studies from UCLA
GPA 3.15 ( lots of personal hardship)
M.A. in Psychological Research from Cal State Long Beach
GPA : 4.0
Research Experience
5 yrs as a Full-time Senior Research Assistant for a company that creates Psychological Assessments (Data analysis, manuscript preparation, Training of new RA's, Easel/assessment building in Qualtrics, data entry, blog writing for company, member of Inaugural DEI committee to improve diversity in the assessments and the company overall)
2 Symposium Presentations (one with my Masters mentor and another invited talk at APA)
7 poster presentations ( 2 from undergrad labs 5 in the masters program, anticipate going to 3 more conferences to present next year)
-Won Psych Day research competition for "Best proposed graduate research"
-Co-authored a poster that won an award at an interpersonal Violence conference
2yrs of research in my Grad Mentor's lab on interpersonal violence and interactions with the criminal justice system for Ethnic Minority women. Also a member of a project in this lab concerning Sexual assault resources on college campuses
Masters thesis on Social Support as a resilience resource against postpartum depression for Black mothers who experienced intimate partner violence
Clinical/Volunteer Experience
4 years as a certified mental health advocate (California Black Women's Health Project).
4 years as a crisis counselor for Crisis Text Line
Teaching Experience
Graduate Assistant for a Research Methods course wherein I hold weekly office hours, grade research proposals, and tutor students. I also guest lectured the course.
Hired as a Lecturer in the Psych department at CSULB Teaching a course on interpersonal violence and victimization, lots of mentorship of students so far, weekly office hours, grading all on my own
LORs
Strong letters from my Graduate mentor (Community psych PhD many pubs) and my Director of Research (MSW, MPL) for my Research Assistant job, and one really good, maybe less personal LOR from my mentor from my undergraduate research experience (Postdoc at UCLA). I can also get a letter from my community psych professor from my master's program who influenced some of my research goals.
GRE
Not taking- Most schools I am interested in do not require it and I honestly can't afford the time cost (and cost cost lol) of prepping
Research Interest
I am especially interested in Clinical Psychology and Counseling programs. I am most interested in studying mental health care disparities for systemically marginalized folks (particularly Black people/Women), capitalizing on cultural resilience resources to combat systemic oppression, and developing interventions to improve perinatal mental health outcomes in Black women using participatory action research.
PhD Programs that I am especially interested in (no particular order)
University of Maryland- Counseling Psychology
George Washington University- Clinical Psychology
Howard University- Clinical Psychology
University of South Carolina- Clinical/Community Psych
Georgia State- Clinical Community
Rutgers University- Clinical Psychology
City University of New York- Clinical Psychology
NYU- Counseling Psychology
Boston College- Counseling Psychology
Would love your thoughts! I really want this to be my last application cycle 🤞
From one applicant to another, just some food for thought, your school list is a bit top heavy imo. It does seem like you're applying a majority east coast programs and about half of them are very competitive east coast programs. You do have solid credentials, but it might behoove you to add some places that get less applications.
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I was honestly a bit worried about that, so thank you for pointing it out! I will expand my list to add some less competitive programs. My issue last year was applying to only 4 HIGHLY competitive programs on the West Coast so I am trying to broaden my horizons this go around.
Huge number of programs in the Midwest, and especially in places that also have community psych programs, you'll find people studying what you are interested in. They're less competitive, not because of quality, simply because people want to live on a coast.
I'm also applying to community focused labs!
I would absolutely broaden your search away from the coasts. Going to a quality program in an undesirable area can help you better live where you want, doing what you want for the next 30-40 years or w/e. I think the 4-5 years of being somewhere less desirable is worth the trade off to have the training that would make me far more competitive for good gigs in desirable areas I'd actually want to live in. The same cannot be said about some diploma mills in areas that are cooler.
WAMC
Hi everyone! I kinda just need some guidance and make sure I’m at least heading in the right direction. I would love to get in for the 2024 cycle but I don’t have the expectation that I’ll get in. I am applying for PhD clinical and developmental programs - for this cycle, just one school (University of New Mexico) I graduated from undergrad here and currently work for the university on an Peds oncology research team as a tech 2. I have been trying to get a more psych related research position but they just aren’t out here and when they are everyone is applying so they’re really hard to get. I have more schools on my list but I'm not in the position to move for a few years so for now I'm just applying to the one school.
BS Psychology and minor in Anthropology
Cumulative GPA: 3.43
Psych GPA: 3.55
(Covid plus lots of personal/family hardship impacted my gpa)
I am currently prepping to take the psych GRE
Research Experience
I also did an independent AP research course in HS- I assume this experience doesn’t count but I might talk about it in my app b/c this course got me interested in research and set me on this track. I did a year long project- more social/community psych focused on the homeless population. I did consents, recorded interviews and surveys, spent a lot of time in different shelters. Is it a good idea to mention this? I know it doesn’t really count as experience but don’t know if it’ll hurt or help if I talk about it.
Letters of Rec:
Because of covid and being an out of state student doing everything online I don’t feel like I got those close relationships with many professors. I do have a list of a few professors that I plan to ask and will also ask my current supervisors.
I didn’t get to do any posters or publications- I don’t really even know how to get into that now that I’m out of undergrad. I am planning to go back to my university for one course that will give me research experience and give me the opportunity to make a close relationship with faculty. I would pursue a masters but the universities near me only offer PhD’s. I am focused on getting into a clinical psych program, I want to focus on substance abuse and adverse childhood events- but I am definitely flexible on my research interests, there are a ton of different area that I would love to explore but the majority of those interests fall under the clinical side.
I know my GPA and lack of research experience are my biggest problems. I’m just hoping I’m on the right track, I know I might need a few years in this job and I’ll need a good GRE score. Any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated! I am throwing my hat in the ring for this year but I don’t except they’ll let me in.
Hi everyone! I kinda just need some guidance and make sure I’m at least heading in the right direction. I would love to get in for the 2024 cycle but I don’t have the expectation that I’ll get in. I am applying for PhD clinical and developmental programs - for this cycle, just one school (University of New Mexico) I graduated from undergrad here and currently work for the university on an Peds oncology research team as a tech 2. I have been trying to get a more psych related research position but they just aren’t out here and when they are everyone is applying so they’re really hard to get. I have more schools on my list but I'm not in the position to move for a few years so for now I'm just applying to the one school.
BS Psychology and minor in Anthropology
Cumulative GPA: 3.43
Psych GPA: 3.55
(Covid plus lots of personal/family hardship impacted my gpa)
I am currently prepping to take the psych GRE
Research Experience
- 4 months volunteering for research institute
- Didn’t get to do anything except put up fliers and process 5 year + old data
- About a month and a half into a full time job at my universities Peds oncology research team
- I handle blood and tissue samples, patient data, learned multiple different data/research platforms, will eventually be in charge of doing all consents, attending rounds
I also did an independent AP research course in HS- I assume this experience doesn’t count but I might talk about it in my app b/c this course got me interested in research and set me on this track. I did a year long project- more social/community psych focused on the homeless population. I did consents, recorded interviews and surveys, spent a lot of time in different shelters. Is it a good idea to mention this? I know it doesn’t really count as experience but don’t know if it’ll hurt or help if I talk about it.
Letters of Rec:
Because of covid and being an out of state student doing everything online I don’t feel like I got those close relationships with many professors. I do have a list of a few professors that I plan to ask and will also ask my current supervisors.
I didn’t get to do any posters or publications- I don’t really even know how to get into that now that I’m out of undergrad. I am planning to go back to my university for one course that will give me research experience and give me the opportunity to make a close relationship with faculty. I would pursue a masters but the universities near me only offer PhD’s. I am focused on getting into a clinical psych program, I want to focus on substance abuse and adverse childhood events- but I am definitely flexible on my research interests, there are a ton of different area that I would love to explore but the majority of those interests fall under the clinical side.
I know my GPA and lack of research experience are my biggest problems. I’m just hoping I’m on the right track, I know I might need a few years in this job and I’ll need a good GRE score. Any advice or feedback is greatly appreciated! I am throwing my hat in the ring for this year but I don’t except they’ll let me in.
Psychology is weird in that each sub-discipline will likely have some specific benchmarks that you'll need to hit as an applicant to be competitive. So somebody competitive for clinical/counseling psych may not be as competitive for school psychology and vice versa. And competitiveness for cognitive/dev/social can be different than a licensure eligible tracks such as clinical psychology.
So the first question is what do you want your future trajectory to be? Clinician? Researcher? Professorship? A lot of applicants/people early in clinical/counseling PhDs will say a mixture but the reality is that we usually get pigeon holed into one or the other by market forces.
Somebody graduating with a clinical psychology PhD will have different career options than somebody graduating with a developmental psych PhD, which would primarily set you up for academic jobs and potentially industry jobs depending on your interests & skillset (e.g., quant skills).
Most clinical psychology PhDs go on and become full-time clinicians and usually have a lot of autonomy to choose their clinical populations/settings. Some go into academia but those jobs can be scarce, especially if higher education funding and enrollment trends continue to dwindle.
Hi! I am just interested in being a researcher and I don't mind the idea of being a professor either. I know clinical is a lot more competitive and I'm not interested in the clinical training they'll give me, the clinical faculty doing the research I'm interested in are all clinical PhD holders. I just assumed I should shoot for that program. I do think that an experimental psych phd program would probably fit with my career goals best but I would need to continue reading up on it more.
University of New Mexico gets around 150-250 applicants for like 5-7 spots.
Additionally they operate with a clinical science model, i.e. they are looking to churn out researchers. Like most clinical science model programs they are also an R1, to say they are research focused is an understatement.
With 0 pubs and presentations I would imagine you'd have a very low chance, you can still apply because you never know and it's decent experience as to how the application cycle operates. As far as R1s go they're less competitive, but it's a still a school that attracts supernerd applications making it very competitive.
When people tell me they are interested in clinical research jobs, my general advice is that this subfield field is pretty competitive, there's no guarantee that you'll land in the types of future jobs you'll want even if you get into your desired PhD program and will require a lot of flexibility (e.g., willing to move anywhere for a job).
My two cents is that you should probably consider extending your timeframe and re-consider your fit for clinical programs.
Between predoctoral internship and graduate school, you'll probably be putting in minimum of 3000 hours towards clinical training (4000 is probably a better bet).
A lot of people go into clinical psych programs without a desire to do clinical work beyond grad school but that's different than zero interest. And some of those people including friends of mine ultimately ended up in full time clinical jobs for any number of reasons.
If you genuinely have zero clinical interest (which is a perfectly fine preference), that would be an immediate disqualifier if I was doing admissions for a clinical psych PhD program. Nor would you likely enjoy or succeed in a graduate program that is tasked with providing you that training in a very thorough manner.
This is certainly better than a random office job but if you're truly focused on wanting a specific type of academic career, you'll need to be very intentional starting now in building up your CV and establishing connections in the field such as current and future collaborators in a way that will line you up for that dream academic job.
So while you're getting good overall research experience, it's also not necessarily congruent with what you want to make a career out of. Good luck!
Do you have any recommendations on how to get some pubs/presentations? I am planning to talk about this with an advisor but I don't really know how to get start with those. I'm hoping this is something I will be able to get into by going back for this research class
Thank you all for your help! It is most appreciated! (Everyone that went to college in my fam got a dental hygienist degree so I'm kinda learning all this on my own)
Funny that you mention that, I wish just talking to my younger sister about how swig of a gig dental hygiene is, but I digress.
You need time in a research lab (months or even years), look up professors and see if they are currently taking volunteer research assistants (RA). Ideally, this would be in a lab close to your interests. Some professors have lab websites and will indicate the process of becoming a RA, others you'll just have to email.
Please apply to more than 1 school. The acceptance rates for these PhD programs goes as low as 2% and most sit sub 10%. If a PhD is genuinely what you want to do, you need to maximize your chances by casting a larger and wider net.
Yes, I plan to apply to more schools but can't this year- just not in the position to move yet. I have an extensive list of schools and programs with all their stats etc. I'm just throwing my hat in the ring this year to go through the app process and I'm trying to figure out what I should aim to do in the coming years to build my CV. Also trying to figure out if what I'm doing now is going to help me or if it isn't doing much to help my CV.
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I don't think you will be successful applying with less than a years research experience. You also won't have enough time to know if that's the path you want to go on for 5+ years of grad school. I would not waste the app. You may potentially harm later chances if it's your top program.
Free video series to get into grad school!
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Becoming a psychological scientist
Draw from a range of professional development resources to navigate and advance careers across different psychological science subfields and work-settings.
www.apa.org
Hello All,
First time poster, long time lurker, haha. This will be my first time applying to Clinical Psych. PsyD/PhD programs, and I'm having trouble solidifying a realistic/shorter list due to a few factors:
Background:
- B.A. in Psychology, Minor in International Studies with a concentration in Global Health and Environment. Didn't have a ton of interaction with research during this time; joined a lab during my second semester of senior year.
- Did Teach for America and taught middle school for 3 years; left education to try other careers, then moved and worked as a Special Education Manager in middle schools for 3.5 years
- Got my MA in Psychology during the Pandemic, 1.5 years of research and President of Psi Chi chapter
- Have been working for the last year as a Psychometrist at a pediatric neuropsychological clinic serving primarily low income/minority populations
Stats:
- Undergrad GPA: 3.57
- Psych. Undergrad GPA: 3.74
- Grad. GPA: 4.08
- No publications (I was a founding lab member in my Grad program so we weren't ready for articles when I was there)
- 1 presentation at a virtual conference
- GRE: haven't taken
WAMC to these programs based on the fact that:
- I'm an "uncommon" applicant: in my early 30s, had a career in education prior to this
- I've worked predominantly in clinical areas (in the classroom, in special education, conducting neuropsychological testing) but I have experience in research and data analysis (took 2 semesters of Grad. Stats. in my MA program)
- I haven't taken the GRE (mostly out of anxiety, but none of the programs require it), so I don't have that data to use as a comparison tool
- My goal is to become a Clinical Psychologist who works in a hospital/team setting who can do both therapy and neuropsychological testing
Programs:
BU (Counseling PhD)
Catholic U
Drexel
Thank you all for reading, responding, or thinking about responding!
First time poster, long time lurker, haha. This will be my first time applying to Clinical Psych. PsyD/PhD programs, and I'm having trouble solidifying a realistic/shorter list due to a few factors:
Background:
- B.A. in Psychology, Minor in International Studies with a concentration in Global Health and Environment. Didn't have a ton of interaction with research during this time; joined a lab during my second semester of senior year.
- Did Teach for America and taught middle school for 3 years; left education to try other careers, then moved and worked as a Special Education Manager in middle schools for 3.5 years
- Got my MA in Psychology during the Pandemic, 1.5 years of research and President of Psi Chi chapter
- Have been working for the last year as a Psychometrist at a pediatric neuropsychological clinic serving primarily low income/minority populations
Stats:
- Undergrad GPA: 3.57
- Psych. Undergrad GPA: 3.74
- Grad. GPA: 4.08
- No publications (I was a founding lab member in my Grad program so we weren't ready for articles when I was there)
- 1 presentation at a virtual conference
- GRE: haven't taken
WAMC to these programs based on the fact that:
- I'm an "uncommon" applicant: in my early 30s, had a career in education prior to this
- I've worked predominantly in clinical areas (in the classroom, in special education, conducting neuropsychological testing) but I have experience in research and data analysis (took 2 semesters of Grad. Stats. in my MA program)
- I haven't taken the GRE (mostly out of anxiety, but none of the programs require it), so I don't have that data to use as a comparison tool
- My goal is to become a Clinical Psychologist who works in a hospital/team setting who can do both therapy and neuropsychological testing
Programs:
BU (Counseling PhD)
Catholic U
Drexel
| Fordham University (Clinical) |
| Fordham University (Counseling PhD) |
| GW (PhD) |
| Georgia State University (Clinical) |
| Georgia State University (Community) |
| GW PsyD |
| Indiana University of PA (PsyD) |
| JMU (PsyD) |
| Loyola University MD (PsyD) |
| Loyola University of Chicago |
| Montclair State University |
| Northwestern - Feinberg |
| Palo Alto University |
| PGSP - Stanford PsyD Consortium (PsyD) |
| Roosevelt University (PsyD) |
| Saint Louis University |
| SMU |
| Suffolk University |
| University of Alabama at Birmingham |
| University of Denver (PsyD) |
| University of Hartford (PsyD) |
| U Mass - Boston |
| UNC at Greensboro (program has a 20% attrition rate...) |
| UVA (Combined School/Clinical PhD) |
| West Chester University (PsyD) |
| Yeshiva (either PhD or School/Clinical PsyD) |
Thank you all for reading, responding, or thinking about responding!
While I don't have any direct exposure to PsyD education, I think you'd be pretty to very competitive candidate for self-pay PsyD programs. You've already got a grad degree and have a good academic track record and (presumably) would be willing to pay their tuition.
Now whether trying to boost your research credentials further (if you don't get a funded offer that makes sense) should 10000% be something that you consider before taking a PsyD offer, including at reputable ones like U of Denver. While you'll get a good education at a place like Denver, I don't think the cost is justifiable (but that's just me).
I wouldn't think one minute extra about the GRE unless you have a top of the list type of program that absolutely requires it.
It's always hard to give advice for specific programs since fit plays a major role. However, since you are applying to a really wide range (including some that have school or community emphasis, which 90 to 99% of clinical or counseling psychology candidates won't consider for their applications), I wonder if further clarification of your own goals and fit could be helpful to make your list more manageable.
Lastly, UAB, while not well known nationally, is absolutely top notch regionally for medical research and academic rigor. I would consider a UAB med school grad to be similar to somebody who went to a place like Duke that just so happens to have better branding. While I don't know anything specifically about their PhD program, I would expect them to be very research/clinical science heavy and thus potentially be a 'reach' school for you, especially compared to some other programs on your list which are less research intensive. Good luck!
Thank you so much for your thoughtful response; I really appreciate it! I think the reason I'm looking at such a wide range of programs because I know people who made those programs "work" for them in getting to where they are; for example, I know clinical neuropsychologists who got their PhDs in School Psychology, and now work for a nationally-known medical center (the ped. neuropsychology clinic I work at is under this medical center). They said it was more difficult for them to get to this point in their careers (get neuropsychological post-doc, for example), but they were able to do it. I think because I'm not sure how equally-weighted research/clinical programs will evaluate my fit based on my experiences, I feel like I should consider these Community/School programs as options. Does this make sense or am I just adding to my list of schools for no reason?
Totally makes sense and you still have 29 programs on your list. Assuming an average cost of $50 per application (unless you can get waivers), that's ~$1500 in application fees plus however much it will cost to send all of your transcripts (maybe another $500?).
And we haven't even gotten to how long it will take to craft individual cover letters which should absolutely speak to tons of specifics for each program, who you want to be mentored by, and how your background & interests fit that program.
So you're running into a numbers/maintain your sanity type of situation, which means likely making some hard cuts.
It sounds like your goal is to be a generalist who spends some of their time doing assessment (as opposed to pursuing board certified neuropsychology). If so, this should be achievable via any reputable PhD/PsyD program in clinical or counseling psychology.
Every PhD/PsyD should provide you with a balance of therapy and assessment opportunities. You can likely opt for more assessment experience than the bare minimum, including applying to medical center/VA internships which may more heavily feature assessment opportunities for generalists.
For community/school options, a question would be whether some of the competencies that they would want to you spend time on are congruent with your future goals or potentially a poor use of time/energy.
And if you aren't able to find a good fit this cycle, there are likely many things you can do to beef up your application (likely continuing some pre-existing research). Lots of capable people don't get in their first app cycle but find much more successful during a second, including fully funded options at excellent programs.
I have a friend with a very similar background to yours and was successful getting admitted to a counseling psychology phd. I would consider broadening your list some to include less exciting locations/less well known school to increase your chances of acceptance. I think of places like U of Kansas, UNL, Texas Teach, Texas A&M, Southern Miss, South Alabama as places that have very good reputations but are less competitive (I think) just due to location. AND most of them are fully or at least partially funded unlike most PsyDs. Just food for thought.
Thanks for this insight! I'm definitely thinking more Counseling PhDs or fully-funded PsyD's may be the way; places like Baylor, JMU, etc. are fully-funded, surprisingly. The only thing I'm worried about with a counseling PhD is not being competitive for neuropsych-focused post-doc positions? Or maybe just because all of the post-docs in my clinic are either PsyD, school PhD, or PhD.
The problem you run into is not necessarily the degree but whether you'll be able to receive the types of training experiences that would help you to be competitive for a neuropsych track internship, which are the most competitive. That includes whether the geographical area where any school is located has access to good neuropsych training (e.g., Are there VAs or medical centers nearby? Or is the area too rural to have significant opportunities?).
For example, Baylor is a solid program that I have some loose connections to. They produce good clinicians & I believe some grads also go into academia. While I certainly don't know the program in & out, I don't think it would do a good job of preparing its students for neuropsych due to the practicum opportunities available around Waco (e.g., last I heard, Baylor students don't do practicum at the Central Texas VA nor would that VA offer good neuropsych training due to staff/resource limitations).
I know board certified neuropsychologists who attended counseling programs but were in metro areas and able to pursue advanced neuropsych training during grad school and matched to an internship with continued training.
And like the Baylor example, I know of counseling & clinical programs where you would be hard pressed to get enough neuropsych to be competitive for neuropsych specific internships which will make securing a neuropsych postdoc more challenging. You can try to glean more into on program websites/brochures, including if they share where students typically do pracs (such as local medical centers & VAs) or ask specifically and use those answers to slim down your list.
Last I heard, there was still a pretty big school psychology internship imbalance including even fewer positions at well recognized medical centers that could prepare one for future board certification. If you're at a combined school/clinical program, I'm not quite sure if you can apply to all internships or would be limited to school-based ones. However, you might be an auto-reject from VAs since they are only adult-focused and somebody with a good chunk of peds work would be seen as a poor fit for the adult veteran population, so you might be cutting off a bunch of good possible matches since VA neuropsych training is solid.
And my guess is that if you were to tally the credentials of everybody who works in your clinic, the school-trained ones may be in a small minority. So it's possible but you just need to be aware of what your backup plan is if neuropsych doesn't work out.
Responding to you and who you responded to. You have to ask yourself, do you want to claw, fight and scrape to make sure you are the outlier for a particular path, or would you rather your desired outcome be the modal response for the path you are on?
Very true; for some reason I never thought of it like this. I guess I was hoping that school PhDs, counseling PhDs, or other PsyD programs in urban areas (I.e. Yeshiva in NYC) would somehow redeem themselves through access to neuropsych-focused training sites. But on the other side of the coin, in large cities there are more grad programs, which means more competition...
BeardedPsychStudent
Full Member
Hello All, I am Douglass and I attend the University of Houston where I am a rising junior and applying to NEXT cycle.
I am applying to:
IUPUI (PhD)
UNC (PhD)
Arkansas (PhD)
Kentucky (Phd)
ETSU (PhD)
Texas Tech (PhD)
University of Houston (PhD)
Xavier (PhD)
Stanford (PhD)
Baylor (PsyD)
Rutgers (Psyd)
Georgia Southern (PsyD)
Marshall (PsyD)
U of I (PsyD)
I have a 3.94 GPA (think it will tick down to 3.91 after this semester. I am in all the clubs and associations (PsI Chi, APA, TPA, etc..). I have 3 years of experience as a certified addiction counselor, 3 years experience as an addictions group facilitator, and as of right now, 1 year in an addiction research lab with the University of Houston's top research professor as well as 1+ year working in an addiction research lab at the V.A. here in Houston where I have a couple posters and presentations and will have 2 years by application time.
Not planning to take the GRE but I guess I could if I need to. I am 43 years old, if you think that might or might not matter.
You're applying to clinical science and PsyD programs? I'd take some time to think about what you want to do and what your goals are. I'm not talking about the false dichotomy of PhDs being for researchers vs. PsyDs being for clinicians, but rather how much research you want to be doing during grad school. I went to (read: am on internship from) one of the programs you have listed and the research expectations are fairly high and the research milestones are very rigorous.
BeardedPsychStudent
Full Member
I am/can go either way. I do enjoy research and am pretty good at it (on an RA-type level) but I can/could also see myself exclusively as a clinician. I simply want to have more options, PLUS there are brilliant researchers/clinicians at all those programs so I am mostly angeling on fit. Take Baylor for instance. I currently work at the VA with a researcher from Baylor Hospital who works in partnership with a Professor at Baylor University whom I am very interested in working with. I know these professors, all of whom I am applying for, very well, and know their research in ways that allow me to make connections with my own interests. Thoughts on that?
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You're ahead of the curve of most first time applicants in that you've not only worked hard in a variety of areas including research but you've actually meaningfully networked and seem to have good clarity about your future in this field. That's awesome and I hope that serves you well this cycle!
How much mentoring regarding grad school applications have you received/asked for from your research mentors? For example, have they looked at your school list and would they have suggestions for other academic peers that you should apply to? Some people may be more willing to do that and some less but it wouldn't hurt to ask if you haven't done so already.
Like most academic subfields, the addictions research world is a small place.
It seems like your battle may be one of fit since you likely check many of the boxes. Some people may have more posters or have already completed a MA/MS and have a 1st author article but you should be in the conversation, at least for interviews at many schools IMO (speaking as an early career clinician who is a few years removed from grad school).
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psycgirly33
New Member
Hey guys, I’m going to be applying to Clinical psychology Ph.D. programs in the summer/ fall and want to know what are my odds of getting in. I graduated from Texas A&M with a 4.0. I have 2 years of undergraduate research experience. I am currently working as research assistant as a contractor in the military working with TBI patients (last 7 months). Additionally, I have a social psychology publication coming out from a reputable journal in the next few months; i’ll be the first author. Anything I could do to improve my resume? Any chance I could get accepted?
psycgirly33
New Member
I forgot to mention I have around 4 undergrad posters and speeches at psychology conventions.
Apply broadly and make sure to work on your SOP early and go through many drafts. You seem like you'd have a fair shot
I’m currently in my clinical psych PhD and it looks like you’re in a solid position as long as your letters are strong and you emphasize fit in your letter of intent.
Mod Note: Merged this into the WAMC sticky, which seems to have perhaps fallen by the wayside recently.
clinicalpsych03
New Member
Hi everyone!! This is my first time ever using a public discussion board like this so I apologize if I'm doing this wrong 🙂
I'm going into my senior year at New York University, and applying to PsyD programs in September. I have a 3.917 GPA, and haven't taken the GRE yet but will do so in the next two months, I got a 35 on my ACT and research has shown those scores are at least semi-correlated so I'm hoping to do well. I've been doing research at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia over the summers since 2019, extending it into the full year for the past year or two. I'm currently writing up research on pediatric concussions and suicidality for publication in Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology (and hopefully will have that at least submitted for review before I apply!) I worked on a suicide hotline for a year, have shadowed a clinical psychologist at behavioral health appointments with patients, and will hopefully be working in a lab this semester. I just wanted to see if anyone had any advice on programs to apply to, and if my research/clinical experience is enough to even be applying at this point. I'm currently looking at Rutgers (which I know is a long shot, but it is my dream school), Loyola Maryland, University of Denver, Widener, and Yeshiva but I'm struggling to find target/safety schools. It doesn't really seem like there is such thing as a 'safety school' - either a program is extremely competitive and well regarded, or is essentially a diploma mill that will accept a good amount of applicants but has poor internship and EPPP pass rates. Does anyone have any thoughts on my chances of being accepted to these programs, additional programs that I should be considering that have higher acceptance rates but are still good programs, or any overall advice for applying? I'm feeling pretty lost with this process and would appreciate any advice! Thanks guys!!
I'm going into my senior year at New York University, and applying to PsyD programs in September. I have a 3.917 GPA, and haven't taken the GRE yet but will do so in the next two months, I got a 35 on my ACT and research has shown those scores are at least semi-correlated so I'm hoping to do well. I've been doing research at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia over the summers since 2019, extending it into the full year for the past year or two. I'm currently writing up research on pediatric concussions and suicidality for publication in Clinical Practice in Pediatric Psychology (and hopefully will have that at least submitted for review before I apply!) I worked on a suicide hotline for a year, have shadowed a clinical psychologist at behavioral health appointments with patients, and will hopefully be working in a lab this semester. I just wanted to see if anyone had any advice on programs to apply to, and if my research/clinical experience is enough to even be applying at this point. I'm currently looking at Rutgers (which I know is a long shot, but it is my dream school), Loyola Maryland, University of Denver, Widener, and Yeshiva but I'm struggling to find target/safety schools. It doesn't really seem like there is such thing as a 'safety school' - either a program is extremely competitive and well regarded, or is essentially a diploma mill that will accept a good amount of applicants but has poor internship and EPPP pass rates. Does anyone have any thoughts on my chances of being accepted to these programs, additional programs that I should be considering that have higher acceptance rates but are still good programs, or any overall advice for applying? I'm feeling pretty lost with this process and would appreciate any advice! Thanks guys!!
If you’re already done research (and seem pretty committed if you’re trying to publish) and appear geographically flexible but are only applying to PsyDs, I think you may have gotten some bad advice to not look at funded PhDs.
And since you’ve limited your search to PsyDs, there are some big philosophical and quality differences between schools on your small list (eg Rutgers vs Yeshiva) that I fear that it may be impossible for you to be a good fit at each of these schools.
Why are you not considering PhDs?
clinicalpsych03
New Member
Thank you for the response! I'm not entirely opposed to PhD programs and may apply to one or two that are more practice focused (based on the practice - research scale in the Insiders Guide), but although I don't mind doing research it's really not my area of interest. I would much rather focus fully on practice and getting clinical experience, as that's what I want to be doing at the end of the road. What makes you think I won't be a good fit at these schools? (Asking purely out of curiosity as I only have knowledge on these programs based on the what the websites say, I really appreciate insider insights!)
APPIC data trends show that PhD students report more direct contact clinical hours as well as greater supervision hours (including individual supervision vs group) than PsyD students.
And literally 95% of the students in my program went into 100% clinical jobs. I have a clinical job with my PhD and haven’t done a minute of original research since becoming licensed.
So the PsyD = clinical and PhD = academic is inaccurate. In fact, Rutgers’ expectations should be roughly the same as a quality PhD; they just do happen to identify as a PsyD granting program.
Your list covers a wide range/types of programs. I don’t know any well but for example, Rutgers by being fully funded will almost certainly expect you to have significant research experience and you’ll likely be applying to a specific PI, who will be evaluating your previous experience, CV and statement of intent (future directions in research) as it compares to their current and future academic projects.
However, many self-pay PsyDs don’t operate on a PI model (like how I assume Rutgers operates) since they have less emphasis on research. Some may not even require students to join a lab and may even allow an extensive literature review to serve as a dissertation.
And since Rutgers is generally known for being very psychodynamic heavy, they may preference a certain set of students than a balanced program like U of Denver.
So if you’re a great fit at Rutgers, you probably wouldn’t be an equally great fit with some of the others in your list and vice versa.
And a competitive, funded program like Rutgers will also literally have a totally different sets of criteria for admissions than self-pay PsyDs, especially those with large cohorts. So if you are competitive for Rutgers, you can likely be competitive at a lot of funded PhDs pending research fit with prospective PIs.
Happy to try to further clarify any of the above if it doesn’t make sense or you have other questions.
Completely agree with Summerbabe’s two posts. You have a decent record, if you want a doctorate, you should be looking at funded programs. To identify programs, it can be helpful to see who is publishing in your area of interest. Then check out the schools they are at.
I went to a funded PhD at an R1. I work exclusively in private practice, as do a number of my classmates. And I have no student loans to deal with.
I went to a funded PhD at an R1. I work exclusively in private practice, as do a number of my classmates. And I have no student loans to deal with.
Cost of living has gone up so much recently that even if you attend a fully funded program you're likely still taking out loans for cost of living. When I was accepted into programs for the 2021 cohort, two of my fully funded offers (well known R1 universities) had monthly (9 months guaranteed, summer not guaranteed) stipends of about $1,200. I accepted a spot at a different R1 program that is about 75% funded that pays me more (monthly stipend is $2,300) and the remaining in-state tuition cost vs. no tuition with a significantly lower salary was roughly similar.
That said, I couldn't imagine attending an incredibly expensive program AND having to take out additional loans to literally survive.
clinicalpsych03
New Member
Thank you everyone for the responses! I have taken your advice into account and chosen a list of PsyD programs based on EPPP pass rate, location, tuition, and internship placement rates (and thrown in a couple PhD programs as well). I know that PsyD programs are incredibly expensive, but I just know I am not going to get into PhD programs. They are ultra competitive for Clinical Psych and I am not the most competitive applicant (especially as my GRE scores are decent, but in no way great). I've decided to try at Case Western (due to a lot of alignment with my research interests) and Drexel (close to home), but otherwise sticking to PsyDs. My list is currently Indiana State, University of Indianapolis, Roosevelt, Xavier, Marshall, Rutgers, Loyola Maryland, Widener, and Yeshiva. I'd love to know - does anyone see any glaring red flags in any of these programs that I'm not aware of? I've done a good amount of research and I am aware of some not great aspects (Widener's captive internship, for example) but nothing that has made me write them off completely. Would love to hear people's thoughts!
Your list has some significant reaches. If you feel you are competitive for Rutgers and Drexel (two ridiculously difficult programs to get into), you might as well be applying for more PhD programs :/ otherwise, if you’re just YOLO applying for those two, you’re throwing away money.
What is your research interest?
Edit: wait a minute you have a 3.9 GPA and have research experience. Why aren’t you applying PhD again? 😵💫
What is your research interest?
Edit: wait a minute you have a 3.9 GPA and have research experience. Why aren’t you applying PhD again? 😵💫
Gonna second this advice.
At the very least, the OP should also consider Counseling Psych PhDs, especially in less desirable geographic locations (assuming a research fit can be found) since they are considering fully and partially funded PsyDs, which essentially operate like PhD programs.
Unless your GRE score is bottom percentile tier in both math and verbal, it shouldn't have much bearing.
I would advise against applying to Drexel if there isn't also a research fit. Not sure how competitive that program is but even a less competitive program would likely not extend an interview invite if there isn't some degree of fit (assuming it operates as a mentorship style program).
Yep they’re mentorship model and take research fit SUPER seriously. I actually had decent research fit (I do eating disorder research, they have a whole damn eating disorder research lab), but didn’t even get an interview because my sub-branch of eating disorder research didn’t fully match up with theirs 😅 it’s a crazy competitive program.
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clinicalpsych03
New Member
I think I'm definitely YOLOing Rutgers just to throw my hat in the ring, but from these responses I feel like I should take Drexel off my list. I honestly don't have a good fit with anyone's research in the program, and now I'm seeing that this might just be a waste of an application.
I'm not applying to more PhD's because, quite frankly, I don't really like research. I loved the research that I did but I just would prefer for my program to focus more on practicing and less on multiple research projects and dissertations. I also just really don't think I'm going to get into PhD programs. As a psychology professor at Saint Joes told me, getting into a Clinical Psych PhD program is like putting a stamp on the floor in the middle of the room, turning out the lights, and then trying to lick it. I would rather apply to programs that I know I have a slightly better shot of getting into, and whose program structures align with my interests, and just live with the debt. Are there any more clinically focused PhD programs you would recommend that I could replace Drexel with?
The amount of research at a PhD program depends almost entirely on the mentor. For example, at my program there are incredibly productive professors that publish a double digit number of papers per year. Then there are professors like my mentor that push out maybe 7 or 8 per year. Then there are some that do substantially less.
This often has a direct impact on student productivity and how much the mentor/program value/expect research productivity. I've seen students in my program graduate with 10 publications and others with 0. Obviously everyone does a thesis and dissertation, but outside of that there is so much variability.
And honestly, when I started this program, I didn't really like research. I never wanted to do it. Now, I'm more open to it and have found myself compiling a list of ideas for research projects. The more engaged you are in research and the more exposure you have to it, you're better able to interpret the existing literature which directly impacts your clinical work. And you have a more robust toolkit for not falling into the pseudoscience and fad therapies that are currently proliferating. In other words, understanding research positively impacts your clinical work and advocacy for empirically supported treatments.
I highly suggest you keep an open mind. Try not to go into the search for programs with the idea of "I want to do the least amount of research as possible" But rather "this type of research fascinates me" because I promise you, if you enjoy the topic then it makes it infinitely easier to tolerate the more maniacal aspects of it. You may end up looking forward to further projects because of the deeper understanding you have of the research behind your clinical interests.
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I may be reading this too literally but taken to the logical conclusion, you should probably eliminate any program which offers full or partial funding on your list since the trade off is basically funding in exchange for research contributions, including those beyond your bare minimum requirements such as thesis and dissertation.
I don’t know enough about how partial funded programs work in terms of research expectations but I imagine they are similar to a fully funded program, just with less financial support.
You may also struggle to write a compelling statement of interest as to why you would like a doctorate so taking this logic even further, you may find a better fit in a masters program that leads to licensure, which will likely only focus on practice.
Or an expensive self pay PsyD which will basically let you do whatever you want, including a lit review or already collected data set dissertation.
Me personally, I didn't love research either and haven’t done a lick since graduating but I was more than willing to heavily contribute to multiple projects that my advisor and lab initiated, as well as two original studies largely driven of my own development that were closely advised by my PI (thesis and dissertation).
Many dozens, but you'd need to narrow that down by fit. If you don't fit with that program, it'd just be throwing money and time away.
If you ONLY want to learn how to practice and be a good psychotherapist, your best bet is getting a masters degree in counseling or social work. There’s no need to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt (and 5-6 years of your time) just to come out and be a therapist.
If your argument is that you want the doctorate due to some perceived increase in prestige, know that that prestige is associated (among many other things) with a knowledge of the research (how to interpret it and how to conduct it) and the mentorship.
You have a copy of the Insider’s Guide, right? You can find clinically aligned programs in there. But every respectable PhD and funded PsyD program will have some research emphasis even if they “clinically” oriented. You’re not going to be able to avoid research unless you do a masters (or a FSPS, but don’t do that). So, if research is in the cards regardless, why not go all the way and anpply for fully funded PhD programs?
If your argument is that you want the doctorate due to some perceived increase in prestige, know that that prestige is associated (among many other things) with a knowledge of the research (how to interpret it and how to conduct it) and the mentorship.
You have a copy of the Insider’s Guide, right? You can find clinically aligned programs in there. But every respectable PhD and funded PsyD program will have some research emphasis even if they “clinically” oriented. You’re not going to be able to avoid research unless you do a masters (or a FSPS, but don’t do that). So, if research is in the cards regardless, why not go all the way and anpply for fully funded PhD programs?
