WAMC: What Are My Chances

[Temperance]

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How are you funding your Psy.D.? If you take out the $200,000+ in loans, then you're likely just making a trade where you enjoy a so-called "high" quality of life in 4-5 years of graduate school at the cost of your quality of life for decades after you graduate, when you have student loan bills to pay (and don't count on forgiveness, income-based repayment, or PSLF being around forever because they may very well not be).

To answer your direct question: you're definitely fine for Alliant and Wright. I can't speak for PGSP.

 

[elokobi3]

How are you funding your Psy.D.? If you take out the $200,000+ in loans, then you're likely just making a trade where you enjoy a so-called "high" quality of life in 4-5 years of graduate school at the cost of your quality of life for decades after you graduate, when you have student loan bills to pay (and don't count on forgiveness, income-based repayment, or PSLF being around forever because they may very well not be).

To answer your direct question: you're definitely fine for Alliant and Wright. I can't speak for PGSP.

I am fortunate to have funds for my education and I am very grateful for that. I may have minimal loans, but that is to be expected. Thanks for the input! I am from Tahoe and just love Northern California and the Bay Area. That is why I have chosen to stay in the area.

 

[oohan]

I am applying for clinical psychology Psy.D programs for admission in Fall 2022. I am writing this to understand my chances at potential admission. I also wanted to start a dialogue with prospective students of the programs I’ve applied to in order to see when others have received decisions from schools.



Education:

BA in Psychology. I started off taking classes for a pre-med track so I have background in that as well as philosophy, sociology, and minority studies. I have interacted directly with children of different ethnic backgrounds and mental abilities.



Stats:

Overall GPA: 3.14

Psychology GPA: 3.16

GRE Psychology Test: 622



Research Experience:

I am currently working in a research lab and have been for almost two years. The work centers around autistic children and improving their behavioral and cognitive skills along with motor coordination. I am currently a coder and have learned and undergone numerous coding schemes, including analyzing results provided from fNIRs machinery. Also, I’ve participated in testing and questionnaires provided to families. I presented my research at a research exposition and was met with rave reviews from colleagues and superiors.



Work/Clinical Experience:

I have worked throughout undergrad. The first jobs being customer service and retail until I was enlisted to join the previously mentioned lab for wages. I did that work throughout the school year. This past summer, I worked as a receptionist and medical assistant to an optometrist. I interacted with them on a social, but medical level and performed pre-testing. Working at this job diversified my skill set and saw me interacting with people of all ages, races, mental capacities, and backgrounds. Unfortunately, I have not done any shadowing or have direct volunteer experience because of my pre-occupation with my current lab.



Clinically, I play another role in the lab I work in. Aside from coding results provided by children in the lab, I directly interact with the children and instruct them to improve their cognitive, behavioral and motor skills. This first happened online only when the pandemic hit. This past year, I actually travelled to the child’s home to provide intervention and collect research for other research assistants to analyze.



Letters of Recommendation:

I believe I made good relationships with faculty in my undergraduate experience. The first LOR I received is from the head of the research study I currently work in. The second is from the graduate study I work under in my study. Finally, the last letter is from the faculty coordinator and an associate professor in history.



Statement of Purpose:

I think my statement was, overall, solid. There is always room for improvement but I am confident in how I presented myself.



Other information:

I have experience from previous classes, interacting with children. It was important for me to use social-cognitive skills to interact with the children. The teacher of the class reported, due to my impact, she saw a spike in cognitive and social ability in a child with a neurodevelopmental disorder. While I have most of my research/clinical background in children, my area of interest is Mood Disorders with a specific interest in Trauma. I am a bit nervous because I applied to no master’s programs lol.



Programs I am Applying To:

• Rutgers University
• Widener University
• La Salle University
• Xavier University
• West Chester University

While I am confident in my psychological abilities, I know I don’t have the most competitive GPA. I do think my GRE subject test score, clinical/research experience, and personal story could help me stand out to admissions departments.

 

[Temperance]

I say this as someone who is originally from and adores California: it's unconscionable to sacrifice giving the best possible care for one's future patients (via getting the best possible training) just because one doesn't want to leave home for a few years, but you do you.

 

[psych.meout]

I say this as someone who is originally from and adores California: it's unconscionable to sacrifice giving the best possible care for one's future patients (via getting the best possible training) just because one doesn't want to leave home for a few years, but you do you.

Eh, I think patients will be fine with poor clinical skills once they hear about that sick powder in Tahoe.

 

[elokobi3]

I say this as someone who is originally from and adores California: it's unconscionable to sacrifice giving the best possible care for one's future patients (via getting the best possible training) just because one doesn't want to leave home for a few years, but you do you.

You guys are hilarious 😆. I came on here for a little advice and then get roasted. My poor future patients.... I’ll send them over to you guys when they are dissatisfied with my treatment.

 

[elokobi3]

Eh, I think patients will be fine with poor clinical skills once they hear about that sick powder in Tahoe.

Again thanks for roasting me 😂. I be thinking of you when I’m living a healthy school/life balance while making sick powder turns.

 

[psych.meout]

Again thanks for roasting me 😂. I be thinking of you when I’m living a healthy school/life balance while making sick powder turns.

This is begging the question and implying a false choice between quality of life and quality of training. You're assuming that students who were "pressed to get into the best school" don't have a high quality of life, which isn't necessarily the case. In fact, the opposite makes much more sense.

Attending an unfunded program means that, unless you are independently wealthy to self-fund all expenses, you're likely taking on debt to pay for tuition and fees, cost of living, and other expenses. That means that any of these "quality of life" activities outside of school are almost assuredly going to funded by even more debt unless you have someone else paying them for you.

Compare this with funded programs where you don't pay for school or health insurance and are even receiving a stipend to live off of. You likely aren't accruing debt (or at least only minimal debt), so you can much more easily afford to do these quality of life activities outside of school. Up until COVID hit, I traveled multiple times per year, including going to Europe. Moreover, attending a funded program comes with other benefits to increase your quality of life. For example, I've attended research conferences around the country and all my expenses were paid for by my program because I was presenting a poster or talk there. I was able to do tons of fun stuff in each location during down time between conference activities. I was even going to Europe for a conference before COVID cancelled it.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just as a quick note, it's fully possible to go to a good, fully funded program and get a lot of hiking, climbing, softball, volleyball, etc in. The real bonus is being able to keep all this going, get married, have kids, buy a house, max out retirement accounts every year, etc after grad school when you don't have crushing loan payments. Simply ridiculous to pose it as a binary choice that reputable training equals low QoL.

 

[elokobi3]

Just as a quick note, it's fully possible to go to a good, fully funded program and get a lot of hiking, climbing, softball, volleyball, etc in. The real bonus is being able to keep all this going, get married, have kids, buy a house, max out retirement accounts every year, etc after grad school when you don't have crushing loan payments. Simply ridiculous to pose it as a binary choice that reputable training equals low QoL.

No I totally agree. I have thought about applying to funded PhD programs elsewhere. But that would require me getting at least one more year of quality lab experience and I'm not super inclined to do that because while I enjoy and value research, working unpaid in a lab isn't what I want to do. I have some lab experience and received one grant and presented my paper, but I know its not enough. Like I mentioned, I am fortunate to have funds for my education so this is why I am opting for PsyD. From my extensive research, Wright and Alliant can provide quality training. As everyone and their mother on this site knows, they are not the best, but it really is what you make it. I know that if I am diligent and intentionally work with the right people, that I will be successful. But I do appreciate the input. I am still possibly considering postponing a year and then applying to PhD. We will see.

Some of the people's idea of input on here is annoying though. Psych.meow thinks that being an dingus and bragging about his funded program is going to convince me to ditch my plan that I have contemplated for 4 years and listen to him. I wish that guy luck though. Hopefully he's not as arrogant and douchey to his patients.

 

[WisNeuro]

No I totally agree. I have thought about applying to funded PhD programs elsewhere. But that would require me getting at least one more year of quality lab experience and I'm not super inclined to do that because while I enjoy and value research, working unpaid in a lab isn't what I want to do. I have some lab experience and received one grant and presented my paper, but I know its not enough. Like I mentioned, I am fortunate to have funds for my education so this is why I am opting for PsyD. From my extensive research, Wright and Alliant can provide quality training. As everyone and their mother on this site knows, they are not the best, but it really is what you make it. I know that if I am diligent and intentionally work with the right people, that I will be successful. But I do appreciate the input. I am still possibly considering postponing a year and then applying to PhD. We will see.

Some of the people's idea of input on here is annoying though. Psych.meow thinks that being an dingus and bragging about his funded program is going to convince me to ditch my plan that I have contemplated for 4 years and listen to him. I wish that guy luck though. Hopefully he's not as arrogant and douchey to his patients.

While some of the feedback on here can be abrasive and tough, I'd try to see the info behind that. I am not exaggerating when I say that many sites will simply not even consider applications for internship/postdoc/jobs from certain sites. Some of those sites being from that list. That's a lot of money to pay to have doors permanently closed.

 

[elokobi3]

While some of the feedback on here can be abrasive and tough, I'd try to see the info behind that. I am not exaggerating when I say that many sites will simply not even consider applications for internship/postdoc/jobs from certain sites. Some of those sites being from that list. That's a lot of money to pay to have doors permanently closed.

Right, I've heard that. I have been in touch with Wright and Alliant advisors and alumni. They have placements in hospitals and clinics all over. My good friend is an Alliant grand and did post doc at UC Davis med center and then at a clinic in Tahoe. But I am weary of some of the other sketchy schools in California that aren't APA, or have really bad stats.

 

[WisNeuro]

Right, I've heard that. I have been in touch with Wright and Alliant advisors and alumni. They have placements in hospitals and clinics all over. My good friend is an Alliant grand and did post doc at UC Davis med center and then at a clinic in Tahoe. But I am weary of some of the other sketchy schools in California that aren't APA, or have really bad stats.

Do what you need to do, but it's always better to succeed with the help of your program rather than succeeding despite your program. I'd rather bank on a modal outcome than an outlier.

 

[psych.meout]

Right, I've heard that. I have been in touch with Wright and Alliant advisors and alumni. They have placements in hospitals and clinics all over. My good friend is an Alliant grand and did post doc at UC Davis med center and then at a clinic in Tahoe. But I am weary of some of the other sketchy schools in California that aren't APA, or have really bad stats.

Alliant is a sketchy school.

Some of the people's idea of input on here is annoying though. Psych.meow thinks that being an dingus and bragging about his funded program is going to convince me to ditch my plan that I have contemplated for 4 years and listen to him. I wish that guy luck though. Hopefully he's not as arrogant and douchey to his patients.

I wasn't "bragging," I was using myself and my program as salient examples of how your dichotomy of diploma mill=high QoL vs. good program=low QoL is false, an 70-80% internship match rate is horrible for any program, and a licensure rate that low is alarming in the context of a PsyD program. My point was that it's not just vague generalizations, but that I have tangible experience with this that I can speak from. Sorry if you misunderstood that.

It might be helpful to take some time to reflect on the soundness of this plan you've had for so long if even such mild criticism of it elicits such a strong negative reaction.

 

[Temperance]

Making sure that this doesn't get lost:

I am applying for clinical psychology Psy.D programs for admission in Fall 2022. I am writing this to understand my chances at potential admission. I also wanted to start a dialogue with prospective students of the programs I’ve applied to in order to see when others have received decisions from schools.

You have an impressive array of experiences. My biggest concerns here are your psychology GPA and your subject test score. Are there any circumstances that could explain your performance on either of those two? Your GPA may have been an issue regardless, but scoring at the 42nd percentile on the GRE subject test as a psychology major is somewhat of a red flag.

 

[Psyched__4]

I’ve applied to a private school last year for clinical psychology (PhD) and was accepted but ended up declining the offer due to the back-breaking debt that I would’ve been accumulating. (Which some of you helped with clarifying on here)
For Fall 2022, I’ve applied to the following funded grad programs in clinical psych (low-key I’m losing hope of getting in due to the level of competitiveness):

UCSD/SDSU Joint Doctoral program
USC
UCI
UCLA
UCSB
UCB

Bachelor of Science in Psychology (extremely selective at my undergrad institution since the regular degree for psych is a BA):
-Undergrad overall GPA: 3.23 (due to major difficult events in personal life)
-Undergrad Major (psychology) GPA: 3.75 (straight A’s with very few B’s and more than a few A+’s)
-I worked in research labs all 4 years of undergrad and published my research paper in an undergrad research journal with very little suggested edits to fit the journal requirements after it was reviewed by faculty on the review board. I was the primary author on the paper and it’s considered one of the first papers to discuss a multi-step new concept.

After graduating in the midst of Covid, I worked with students with learning disabilities, on the autism spectrum, and students who struggle with psychological and neurological disorders. I worked with students from different ethnic backgrounds and some with language barriers (ESL).

My statements of propose and personal statements are pretty solid I would say. And I have some of the best recommenders being faculty members whom I’ve worked with extensively during my undergrad.

My questions at this point (while I await the results):
-Did I apply to a low number of schools than expected?
-Would the recommenders agree to write letters for the next application cycle or is it out of the question at this point?

Thanks for taking the time, everyone! Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

 

[summerbabe]

-Did I apply to a low number of schools than expected?
-Would the recommenders agree to write letters for the next application cycle or is it out of the question at this point?

1. Almost certainly so. UCLA is extraordinarily competitive for everything and while I don’t know much about the other 5 programs, I imagine they are pretty competitive as well since it’s a lot of UCs and location. The median applicant is probably applying to 10-15 places and more importantly, are not geographically limiting themselves. Are these programs all genuinely the best fit for your clinical and academic interests or because you want to stay in SoCal? Given the diversity of research domains and program orientations, I’m thinking the former. It’s also pretty easy for faculty at competitive schools to spot and toss apps that aren’t a great fit.
2. Absolutely. It wouldn’t hurt to give them advance notice so they don’t delete your letter.

Overall, your low cumulative GPA is probably hurting you, especially at the most competitive sites. If a program is getting 200+ apps for 5 spots, they are going to have to cut a bunch from get go and GPA can be used for these decisions. Since notifications and interviews are happening now, you might be on the outside looking in.

Right now you have a ton of lab experience but you’re lacking in research productivity. If that undergrad research journal is something published by your school, it wouldn’t count as a peer reviewed article and instead, be seen as an extension of an undergrad thesis/paper. Being a secondary author on something published by an academic journal will really help if you are not successful this cycle.

Lastly, LORs generally carry less weight than applicants think and usually go to support an application, rather than enhance it. Partly because unless the reviewer knows that writer personally (or is familiar with their work), it’s really just another random professional. Best of luck in the future.

 

[Psyched__4]

1. Almost certainly so. UCLA is extraordinarily competitive for everything and while I don’t know much about the other 5 programs, I imagine they are pretty competitive as well since it’s a lot of UCs and location. The median applicant is probably applying to 10-15 places and more importantly, are not geographically limiting themselves. Are these programs all genuinely the best fit for your clinical and academic interests or because you want to stay in SoCal? Given the diversity of research domains and program orientations, I’m thinking the former. It’s also pretty easy for faculty at competitive schools to spot and toss apps that aren’t a great fit.
2. Absolutely. It wouldn’t hurt to give them advance notice so they don’t delete your letter.

Overall, your low cumulative GPA is probably hurting you, especially at the most competitive sites. If a program is getting 200+ apps for 5 spots, they are going to have to cut a bunch from get go and GPA can be used for these decisions. Since notifications and interviews are happening now, you might be on the outside looking in.

Right now you have a ton of lab experience but you’re lacking in research productivity. If that undergrad research journal is something published by your school, it wouldn’t count as a peer reviewed article and instead, be seen as an extension of an undergrad thesis/paper. Being a secondary author on something published by an academic journal will really help if you are not successful this cycle.

Lastly, LORs generally carry less weight than applicants think and usually go to support an application, rather than enhance it. Partly because unless the reviewer knows that writer personally (or is familiar with their work), it’s really just another random professional. Best of luck in the future.

Thank you for your feedback. Yes, I picked these programs based on overlapping research interests with mentors at those schools.
A consistent passion of mine is continuing my research, although it is difficult to continue it outside of an academic institution due to the absence of support (as I've already graduated) and since my research thesis explored multiple subsections of the research question (and was regarded by multiple faculty reviewers as above average for an undergraduate paper). The research journal (although founded by my undergrad university), is extremely selective and is recognized as a peer-reviewed journal (as far as I've been told by my faculty mentor).

My ultimate goal is to continue researching and potentially become a lecturer at a university that values diversity (I was hoping to have the opportunity to become a mental health counselor which is only made available through a PhD in clinical or counseling psych).

Is there a different route I can take to reach my goal of becoming a lecturer? In other words should I apply to a different department of psych?

 

[summerbabe]

I picked these programs based on overlapping research interests with mentors at those schools

For any place that you don't get an interview, it's possible that: 1) your idea of perceived fit does not match with a program; b) fit is good but you aren't as competitive as other applicants who also fit well

A consistent passion of mine is continuing my research, although it is difficult to continue it outside of an academic institution due to the absence of support (as I've already graduated)

A very, very large portion of successful clinical psych PhD applicants continue to pursue research post-graduation as most applicants are not competitive coming directly out of undergrad without additional prep. There are definitely barriers in place but these options are available.

The research journal (although founded by my undergrad university), is extremely selective and is recognized as a peer-reviewed journal (as far as I've been told by my faculty mentor).

Makes sense. Some successful applicants, especially to very competitive PhDs have secondary authorship for articles in peer-reviewed journals that accept submissions from all, which would almost certainly mean more selectivity and a more thorough review/revision process.

Is there a different route I can take to reach my goal of becoming a lecturer? In other words should I apply to a different department of psych?

If your goal is to be a tenure-track faculty in a high research productivity setting, you're gonna need to buckle down on figure out how to start getting attached to peer-reviewed projects and building your CV. To be blunt, you're not there yet compared to your peers who are applying to PhDs with the intention to go into academia. The current market for these jobs is incredibly intense, especially if your research area isn't ripe with tons of grant funding options. And you'll need some really good mentoring each step along the way.

It's pretty different being an temporary adjunct, which might even be possible with a MS at some locations like community colleges. As well as if you want to work in a more teaching oriented setting (e.g., liberal arts) but that will still require a PhD.

 

[Psyched__4]

For any place that you don't get an interview, it's possible that: 1) your idea of perceived fit does not match with a program; b) fit is good but you aren't as competitive as other applicants who also fit well

A very, very large portion of successful clinical psych PhD applicants continue to pursue research post-graduation as most applicants are not competitive coming directly out of undergrad without additional prep. There are definitely barriers in place but these options are available.

Makes sense. Some successful applicants, especially to very competitive PhDs have secondary authorship for articles in peer-reviewed journals that accept submissions from all, which would almost certainly mean more selectivity and a more thorough review/revision process.

If your goal is to be a tenure-track faculty in a high research productivity setting, you're gonna need to buckle down on figure out how to start getting attached to peer-reviewed projects and building your CV. To be blunt, you're not there yet compared to your peers who are applying to PhDs with the intention to go into academia. The current market for these jobs is incredibly intense, especially if your research area isn't ripe with tons of grant funding options. And you'll need some really good mentoring each step along the way.

It's pretty different being an temporary adjunct, which might even be possible with a MS at some locations like community colleges. As well as if you want to work in a more teaching oriented setting (e.g., liberal arts) but that will still require a PhD.

Okay.
May I ask what career path you took (degree, school, etc.)
Thanks

 

[summerbabe]

Okay.
May I ask what career path you took (degree, school, etc.)
Thanks

Fully funded PhD in an area of the country that I had never visited prior to grad school but was a good academic fit for me.

I put in my dues with research but am in a 100% clinical role in the VA with zero desire to ever teach or do further independent research. However, I feel like I understand research processes pretty well and actively utilize that to guide my clinical work.

 

[psych.meout]

Thank you for your feedback. Yes, I picked these programs based on overlapping research interests with mentors at those schools.

There's a difference between overlapping research interests and strong research fit.

 

[Psyched__4]

There's a difference between overlapping research interests and strong research fit.

I’m well aware. If I could go back and rephrase I would use “strong research fit.”

 

[psych.meout]

I’m well aware. If I could go back and rephrase I would use “strong research fit.”

Except you clearly geographically restricted your applications to a very small area and I'm skeptical that you would have a strong fit with faculty at all these programs on the basis of geography.

 

[gene_halpert]

Maybe this is better for a separate thread…. But could you enlighten more about what constitutes “strong research fit” versus overlapping interest? Is it having publications and a lot of experience in that PIs specific field? I only received one interview this cycle and I’m thinking “fit” may have a large part to do with that (although I’m not saying I was perfect otherwise!).

 

[Psyched__4]

Except you clearly geographically restricted your applications to a very small area and I'm skeptical that you would have a strong fit with faculty at all these programs on the basis of geography.

As I’ve previously stated, the topic/research question which I’ve extensively researched and conducted studies for yielded a multifaceted answer. Each part of this answer is a paper on its own. So I hope that provides a better idea on why I had a strong fit with multiple faculty within what seems as a geographically restricted parameter.

Thanks for your concern, however, that’s not my main concern as of right now.

 

[Dazen]

Maybe this is better for a separate thread…. But could you enlighten more about what constitutes “strong research fit” versus overlapping interest? Is it having publications and a lot of experience in that PIs specific field? I only received one interview this cycle and I’m thinking “fit” may have a large part to do with that (although I’m not saying I was perfect otherwise!).

Strong research fit is complicated, because it depends on what a specific PI or program is looking for. There's also the two aspects of past work and future interests. Publications and experience in the PI's specific field is very helpful - e.g. working on projects that closely overlap with their research, having experience with methodologies that are less common and central to their work (I'm thinking of complex stats and/or hands-on neuro data collection and analysis here). IMO future interests are (slightly) more important, because your PI has to have the ability to support you in your research goals throughout grad school and you need to fit into their lab's current research. This is evaluated more subjectively, and generally comes down to your description of the specific types of research questions you want to ask in grad school and how they fit with your PI's work that are in your SOP.

For example, something like "I'm interested in studying suicide" is probably too broad, even if that PI does study suicide, while something like "I'm interested in studying the intersection of traumatic experience and suicidal ideation in individuals diagnosed with certain personality disorders" (I'm totally making this up) would be in the realm of specific enough to possibly too specific. I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is having too broad of a research interest. Many doctoral interviews will ask you what study you would run for your masters thesis or if you had unlimited funds, so you do want to think through your interests on this level. The PI wants to know that you have learned enough about the area to generate your own research questions, and that you can explain how their expertise will support you in this. It's definitely messy, but I'm hoping this is somewhat helpful!

 

[Dazen]

Thank you for your feedback. Yes, I picked these programs based on overlapping research interests with mentors at those schools.
A consistent passion of mine is continuing my research, although it is difficult to continue it outside of an academic institution due to the absence of support (as I've already graduated) and since my research thesis explored multiple subsections of the research question (and was regarded by multiple faculty reviewers as above average for an undergraduate paper). The research journal (although founded by my undergrad university), is extremely selective and is recognized as a peer-reviewed journal (as far as I've been told by my faculty mentor).

My ultimate goal is to continue researching and potentially become a lecturer at a university that values diversity (I was hoping to have the opportunity to become a mental health counselor which is only made available through a PhD in clinical or counseling psych).

Is there a different route I can take to reach my goal of becoming a lecturer? In other words should I apply to a different department of psych?

To answer your original question, if you want to be a lecturer/researcher and are not specifically interested in clinical questions or clinical populations, you can apply either to experimental psych PhD programs or to another area of psych that specifically fits your area of interest. While still competitive, these programs are generally easier to get into than clinical/counseling. If you want to be a mental health counselor, you can get a masters-level degree (e.g. MSW) that will allow you to practice as a clinician without doing research while in your graduate degree. This will allow you to do most of the same type of clinical work as someone with a PhD, with a few exceptions (e.g. assessment).

Separately, to add another perspective, all studies I know that have yielded more than 1-2 peer-reviewed papers have required a large team of researchers (including PhDs, masters, undergrads, etc), generally at multiple institutions, working over at least a few years. It sounds like you've done some impressive undergraduate-level research, and don't want to take away from the positive feedback you've gotten from your advisor. I do want to reality check you comment on each aspect of your project being a paper on its own, if it's a project you've done independently in a year or two of college.

 

[Psyched__4]

To answer your original question, if you want to be a lecturer/researcher and are not specifically interested in clinical questions or clinical populations, you can apply either to experimental psych PhD programs or to another area of psych that specifically fits your area of interest. While still competitive, these programs are generally easier to get into than clinical/counseling. If you want to be a mental health counselor, you can get a masters-level degree (e.g. MSW) that will allow you to practice as a clinician without doing research while in your graduate degree. This will allow you to do most of the same type of clinical work as someone with a PhD, with a few exceptions (e.g. assessment).

Separately, to add another perspective, all studies I know that have yielded more than 1-2 peer-reviewed papers have required a large team of researchers (including PhDs, masters, undergrads, etc), generally at multiple institutions, working over at least a few years. It sounds like you've done some impressive undergraduate-level research, and don't want to take away from the positive feedback you've gotten from your advisor. I do want to reality check you comment on each aspect of your project being a paper on its own, if it's a project you've done independently in a year or two of college.

I would like to start out by thanking you for actually answering my questions concisely and thoroughly and for offering actual constructive feedback. I’ve worked on my research for two years (conducted a study, wrote the paper which was reviewed by multiple faculty members from different psych departments and then published it). I certainly received help/advice from my mentor and faculty advisor as the project tripled in size and content. My comment regarding each aspect of my project being a paper on its own still stands. It’s true and it’s what I plan on expanding on in my career. My initial thesis yielded strong findings which were unpacked to a degree in my published work but certainly need a lot more room to be thoroughly and justly discussed and followed up on through more research.

Thanks again for your helpful feedback.

 

[aspiringdclinpsy]

Hello! I'm new to SDN, so please bear with me as I get used to everything.

I'm wondering about my chances of acceptance to any doctoral clinical/counseling psychology programs. Here are my qualifications:

• B.A. with a double major in Psychology and Art and a minor in English from University of Miami - GPA a 3.32 overall, probably about the same for my psych classes. (I don't think it matters, but I also studied abroad for a semester in undergrad.)
• M.A. in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from a local state university - GPA 3.9
• At the end of the summer, I am hoping to have my M.S. in Psychology from another state university, if everything with my thesis goes as planned (fingers crossed) - current GPA is a 3.77, although I expect it will be higher by the time I graduate
• GRE (only taken once without studying so I might retake): 158 (quant), 161 (verbal), 4.5 (written)
• Clinical experiences:
  • I have worked at a counseling center as a part-time unpaid intern for a semester, and then at another counseling center for a year. Now, I am working paid full-time at a counseling center as a Licensed Professional Counselor Associate working towards full licensure, and plan to keep doing so until my next step comes about (hopefully an acceptance to a doctoral program, or maybe a research position once I finish my M.S.).
  • I have completed trainings in several advanced counseling modalities, although I know that these programs don't really look for clinical skills
• Research experiences:
  • All I have is my masters thesis, which is currently in the works. It's in the general area of social/cultural psychology, so not clinical at all. We will see what comes of it. My thesis advisor has a good track record of having publications from her thesis students' work, so fingers crossed for that, although I'm by no means holding my breath for it.
• I believe my letters of recommendation will be good (I have several strong relationships with professors from my graduate programs as well as clinical supervisors, and I hope to have a good letter from my thesis advisor), and I also have high hopes for my SOPs

I feel that my degrees and clinical experiences have given me a foundation so that I know I want to pursue a career in this field and what would interest me to research versus what does not. I'm mainly interested in suicidal ideation, trauma, crisis, grief/loss, cultural variables (such as individualism, collectivism, and dialecticism), and personality disorders, although this may change. I really love DBT, Accelerated Resolution Therapy, CBT, and TF-CBT. Important factors for me are:

• pleasant location to spend several years (either big city or tropical - yeah I know I'm shooting for the stars with that),
• research and advisor fit,
• finances,
• and - if I'm being really honest - reputation of the school. I made financial decisions for my master's degrees, and I have learned a TON in those programs, but I want to be really really proud of the place I get my last degree, if possible.

My goals for the future are to be a practicing clinician but also to have the flexibility of being a researcher, which I know I would enjoy, and possibly even a teacher. Even better if I can go to other countries to work! Basically, I'm all about versatility and flexibility.

Thank you for any constructive criticism or feedback you can provide!

 

[psych.meout]

Hello! I'm new to SDN, so please bear with me as I get used to everything.

I'm wondering about my chances of acceptance to any doctoral clinical/counseling psychology programs. Here are my qualifications:

• B.A. with a double major in Psychology and Art and a minor in English from University of Miami - GPA a 3.32 overall, probably about the same for my psych classes. (I don't think it matters, but I also studied abroad for a semester in undergrad.)
• M.A. in Clinical Mental Health Counseling from a local state university - GPA 3.9
• At the end of the summer, I am hoping to have my M.S. in Psychology from another state university, if everything with my thesis goes as planned (fingers crossed) - current GPA is a 3.77, although I expect it will be higher by the time I graduate
• GRE (only taken once without studying so I might retake): 158 (quant), 161 (verbal), 4.5 (written)
• Clinical experiences:
  • I have worked at a counseling center as a part-time unpaid intern for a semester, and then at another counseling center for a year. Now, I am working paid full-time at a counseling center as a Licensed Professional Counselor Associate working towards full licensure, and plan to keep doing so until my next step comes about (hopefully an acceptance to a doctoral program, or maybe a research position once I finish my M.S.).
  • I have completed trainings in several advanced counseling modalities, although I know that these programs don't really look for clinical skills
• Research experiences:
  • All I have is my masters thesis, which is currently in the works. It's in the general area of social/cultural psychology, so not clinical at all. We will see what comes of it. My thesis advisor has a good track record of having publications from her thesis students' work, so fingers crossed for that, although I'm by no means holding my breath for it.
• I believe my letters of recommendation will be good (I have several strong relationships with professors from my graduate programs as well as clinical supervisors, and I hope to have a good letter from my thesis advisor), and I also have high hopes for my SOPs

Do you have any research experience (e.g., in your advisor's lab) besides your thesis?

I feel that my degrees and clinical experiences have given me a foundation so that I know I want to pursue a career in this field and what would interest me to research versus what does not. I'm mainly interested in suicidal ideation, trauma, crisis, grief/loss, cultural variables (such as individualism, collectivism, and dialecticism), and personality disorders, although this may change. I really love DBT, Accelerated Resolution Therapy, CBT, and TF-CBT. Important factors for me are:

• pleasant location to spend several years (either big city or tropical - yeah I know I'm shooting for the stars with that),
• research and advisor fit,
• finances,
• and - if I'm being really honest - reputation of the school. I made financial decisions for my master's degrees, and I have learned a TON in those programs, but I want to be really really proud of the place I get my last degree, if possible.

My goals for the future are to be a practicing clinician but also to have the flexibility of being a researcher, which I know I would enjoy, and possibly even a teacher. Even better if I can go to other countries to work! Basically, I'm all about versatility and flexibility.

Thank you for any constructive criticism or feedback you can provide!

Once you exclude diploma mills and unfunded programs, "reputations of the school" doesn't really mean much if you're talking about it on the level of how undergrad institutions are judged.

Programs are much more about whether and how they are good for certain types of research focus and clinical practicum training opportunities. For the former, it's much more about who your mentor is. People will know you and your work based on who your mentor is and what kind of research they do (e.g., they'll recognize you as such at conferences, especially if the conference is focused on that specialty). They might not be familiar with your specific program and may have just heard of the university, but they'll know you and be interested in your work based on with whom you're working. And not all programs have the same kinds of research going on, because they can't possibly have faculty in every area, so you should pick mentor based on their research and what resources are available to support your research (e.g., access to populations for your research). For example, if you're interested in research with indigenous populations, certain programs are going to be better for this than others based on location and certain faculty there will be known for this work and they will have gotten their jobs there for that reason.

For the latter, just as not every type of research is done at every program or have faculty specializing in it, not every program has access to the same clinical training opportunities. For example, some might not have access to inpatient units or jails/prisons if you are interested in that kind of assessment and treatment, so it might be difficult if you wanted to specialize in forensic psych. Others might have lots of neuropsych sites, which would be good if you wanted that specialty. When you go to apply to internship, post doc, and jobs, the interviewers might not be familiar with your program and not really care about the university, they are more interested in all the sites where you did practicum and what specific experiences you had there.

TL;DR: Anyone who knows won't care what university you went to, and anyone who cares doesn't know anything about what training is like in this field.

 

[aspiringdclinpsy]

Do you have any research experience (e.g., in your advisor's lab) besides your thesis?

No, unfortunately I do not (yet!)

Once you exclude diploma mills and unfunded programs, "reputations of the school" doesn't really mean much if you're talking about it on the level of how undergrad institutions are judged.

Programs are much more about whether and how they are good for certain types of research focus and clinical practicum training opportunities. For the former, it's much more about who your mentor is. People will know you and your work based on who your mentor is and what kind of research they do (e.g., they'll recognize you as such at conferences, especially if the conference is focused on that specialty). They might not be familiar with your specific program and may have just heard of the university, but they'll know you and be interested in your work based on with whom you're working. And not all programs have the same kinds of research going on, because they can't possibly have faculty in every area, so you should pick mentor based on their research and what resources are available to support your research (e.g., access to populations for your research). For example, if you're interested in research with indigenous populations, certain programs are going to be better for this than others based on location and certain faculty there will be known for this work and they will have gotten their jobs there for that reason.

For the latter, just as not every type of research is done at every program or have faculty specializing in it, not every program has access to the same clinical training opportunities. For example, some might not have access to inpatient units or jails/prisons if you are interested in that kind of assessment and treatment, so it might be difficult if you wanted to specialize in forensic psych. Others might have lots of neuropsych sites, which would be good if you wanted that specialty. When you go to apply to internship, post doc, and jobs, the interviewers might not be familiar with your program and not really care about the university, they are more interested in all the sites where you did practicum and what specific experiences you had there.

TL;DR: Anyone who knows won't care what university you went to, and anyone who cares doesn't know anything about what training is like in this field.

Thank you very much for your explanation! 🙂 What would qualify as a "diploma mill"? That is one thing I've been researching today - I'm specifically wondering about Chaminade University's Hawaii School for Professional Psychology, since I think they took in a lot of Argosy's students and faculty. Should I be wary of applying there?

 

[psych.meout]

It's basically a diploma mill and I wouldn't apply there.

 

[aspiringdclinpsy]

It's basically a diploma mill and I wouldn't apply there.

Thank you for your response. I'm wondering whether you have any opinion about what kind of programs I should be applying to or whether, given my lack of research experience, I should just wait until I have more before even bothering?

 

[psych.meout]

I mean, if you have the time and money, you could apply if you want, but if you only have you thesis it might not be enough to be competitive. It going to be more difficult the less research experience you have.

Regardless, you should apply as broadly as possible, even if it's not in a major metro area or somewhere with nice weather. Geographic restrictions are always going to hurt one's chances and it only gets worse the less competitive your qualifications are. You should focus on the programs with faculty with the strongest research fit possible. As part of this, you should focus on narrowing your research interests and thinking of a coherent narrative of what you want to research and what clinical opportunities you want from programs, which could even be synthesized for a stronger fit. For example, since you list being interested in trauma, crisis, SI, and DBT, you might look for programs where faculty are doing DBT related research with BPD or other populations in crisis, with trauma histories, etc. Or you might look for researchers doing work on suicide and see if they work with any practicum sites that offer DBT.

 

[aspiringdclinpsy]

Thank you!!

 

[summerbabe]

I feel that my degrees and clinical experiences have given me a foundation so that I know I want to pursue a career in this field

This is one of the biggest questions facing a MS to PhD applicant. You already have a license eligible degree so why a PhD? Your answer via the SOP will play a role in whether a program feels like you're a good fit.

Hint: if your primary motivation is to just become a better therapist, that's probably not gonna cut it for a PhD (maybe some PsyD).

No, unfortunately I do not (yet)

Did your thesis collect original data or was it more of a lit review/theoretical paper?

You have good upward trajectory in academia which is great but the research will be a major barrier, despite your multiple degrees and experience.

 

[aspiringdclinpsy]

This is one of the biggest questions facing a MS to PhD applicant. You already have a license eligible degree so why a PhD? Your answer via the SOP will play a role in whether a program feels like you're a good fit.

Hint: if your primary motivation is to just become a better therapist, that's probably not gonna cut it for a PhD (maybe some PsyD).

Did your thesis collect original data or was it more of a lit review/theoretical paper?

You have good upward trajectory in academia which is great but the research will be a major barrier, despite your multiple degrees and experience.

Thank you very much for your response! I have a couple reasons for wanting to do a doctorate even though I'm already a practicing counselor. I want to combine my background in the fields of counseling and social/cultural psychology by bringing my psychology/research knowledge into my clinical practice and my clinical interests/knowledge into my research. It would allow me to use my broader psychological knowledge in ways that are currently outside my competencies just as a masters-level counselor. Plus it combines my two passions, rather than having them be two separate careers I sorta have to choose between. Counseling isn't super science-focused in its training or other practitioners' foci (don't crucify me for this, it's just my experience in the field), so I want to step up my clinical game in that way. My current research in social/cultural psych is super interesting to me but I'm interested in having it be more applied. An additional reason is that I want the flexibility to maybe take my career and make it international and focused on geographic flexibility, which is (as far as I know) not really a feasible option with just my M.A. in counseling and my M.S. in psychology (I understand that it's hard even with a PhD).

My thesis is collecting original data 🙂

 

[ThatPsyGuy]

Welp, I'm procrastinating on my personal statement so figured I'd drop this and see what you all think.
I'm interested in counseling psychology Ph.D. programs, especially ones with a post. M.A. track. Going to be submitting my application by Dec 1st deadline for the 2022 fall school year.
Due to struggles, I graduated with a lower undergraduate GPA. Took a gap year to do relevant work to get into an M.A. program. Got a lucky break and got into a CACREP accredited master's program.

Education:

• B.A. Psychology 2.9 GPA (oof), 2019
• M.S. Rehab/Mental Health Counseling 4.0 GPA, 2022

Research Experience

• 9 months in an undergraduate physiology student research lab.
• 8 months as a Graduate Research Assistant in collaboration with the local municipal education system and my graduate school
• 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant presently doing research in a funded research project around my area of interest on peer support services
• 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant in a faculty research lab regarding QEEG technology and its application in clinical settings

Publications

• Co-Author of a textbook chapter currently in press
• Individual research project for school

Presentations

• Co-Presentator at NCRE conference regarding research interests (in review)

Clinical Experience

• Supervised Counselor at a practicum site for 6 months. Managed a caseload of up to 10 clients.
• Supervised rehab counselor at future Internship site at state Human services department. (Estimated 6-7 months)
• Supervised therapist at future internship site (alongside the above internship site) (estimated 6-7 months)
  • Should I include future internship sites on my CV?

Work Experience

• Special education and ABA paraprofessional in the local school district
  • This was the Gap year job

Professional Associations: ARCA

Interested Counseling Psychology Ph.D. Programs:

University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
Loyola University
University of Wisconsin Madison
Columbia University

Letters of Rec: 2 Solid letters regarding my research experience with me and my skills. 1 from practicum supervisor regarding clinical work.
(2 Potential LoR from my school's program faculty that are alumni from UW-M)

Research interests: Community Psychoeducation approaches, Community Based Participatory Research, Neuropsychology, Multicultural/underrepresented communities

So what do you all think? Anything I can do to increase my chances in the next....23 days?

Not sure if this is allowed, but I got interviews at two of the four schools I applied to and accepted an offer at one of their programs 👍
Feeling pretty good.

 

[EmoPsyPotato]

Hello, looking for some feedback and advice on my chances of getting accepted in a doctoral program for clinical psychology. I applied to some PsyD programs for fall 2022 and I'm still waiting to hear back, but I'm preparing for worst case scenario of reapplying to programs again this fall (and included some balanced PhD programs as well).

As of now: Loyola Maryland PsyD waitlisted and waiting to hear back after interviews with Xavier University, Widener University, and Roosevelt University. I was accepted into two PsyD programs, but I have since learned that they would likely do more harm than good for my career, and as such I will not be attending either. I'm also considering reapplying even if I get accepted into one of the four aforementioned programs due to the debt associated with them (hence the potential inclusion of balanced PhDs in the second go-around).

So about me:

Graduated May 2021 B.S. in Psychology, minors in art and chemistry
Overall GPA: 3.73
Psych GPA: 3.90
GRE: 159V 160Q 5.5 AW

Currently working as a behavioral health technician at a treatment center for substance abuse (been there since this previous November). This is really the only clinical (if it counts as such) experience I have as of now.

As far as research experience, I worked as a research assistant during my junior and senior years of undergrad. I did prepare and propose a research study in my junior year, which awarded me a spot in a summer fellowship at my school. However, this was cancelled because of the initial covid outbreak and as a rising senior i could not reapply 🙁 that was kinda my only shot. I did do all of the initial proposal steps (lit review, editing abstract and official proposal, working with grad student supervisor and PI for plausible topics and execution, etc.) The program would have been a 10 week program, working 40hrs/week with a $4000 stipend and involved presenting a poster on results/findings at a forum. Obviously I didn't get this experience, but does it mean anything that I did all the lead up work and was accepted to the fellowship? Otherwise, I was still involved in data entry/verification, assisting in creating databases for collection (SPSS), helping grad students with their lit reviews/projects/presentations, preparing study materials, etc for 2 years. That's all I've got though.

I was involved in volunteer/community service work while in undergrad and on the executive board for two volunteer organizations (one focused on empowering minority women, the other mentoring underrepresented kids and adolescents). Also in three honor societies (but I don't think that matters much for grad school?). However, I haven't been involved in any community service work since I graduated almost a year ago.

My main concerns are that I don't have enough relevant research and clinical experience to be seen as a qualified applicant for a doctoral program. I'm aiming to find a new job this year, ideally involved in research to strengthen my chances, but in that case, is applying again this fall too soon? Should I take until fall of 2023 to really get quality experience to apply again. I'm also worried about starting grad school too late or being out of the flow of school for too long in that scenario.

Any advice/feedback/input would be greatly appreciated. I would be the first in my family to attend grad school so I'm really learning as I go (not much guidance from anyone right now). I can't help but feel like despite getting invited to interviews, I'm just not as qualified or experienced as the people who may be applying at the same time as me (maybe its true, maybe its imposter syndrome. doesn't feel great either way)

EDIT: I have realized that my lack of research experience will likely make me completely unable to get into a program. Any advice on how long or how much experience would give me even a chance?

 

[summerbabe]

I would be the first in my family to attend grad school so I'm really learning as I go (not much guidance from anyone right now)

That’s a great accomplishment! How well versed are you on the impact of debt/students loans? These PsyD programs are ridiculously expensive, interest starts accruing as soon as you start school (unless the moratorium keeps getting extended), and having a mountain of debt will greatly impact decisions years down the life after graduating.

I'm aiming to find a new job this year, ideally involved in research to strengthen my chances, but in that case, is applying again this fall too soon?

If you get into Widener, Xavier and Loyola and you get additional research experience and ideally a pub, that plus good fit could be a sign that you might be competitive with funded PhD admissions in a future cycle. Your CV suggests better fit with counseling psych programs than clinical psych.

The big lack in you CV is publication experience (and not additional clinical experiences, which you’ve got more than enough of) as that is an important evaluative component for funded PhDs. You could have years of ‘support’ experiences like data entry and lit review but the next step up is poster/manuscript prep and submission. Good luck!

 

[singasongofjoy]

Not sure if this is allowed, but I got interviews at two of the four schools I applied to and accepted an offer at one of their programs 👍
Feeling pretty good.

heyyyyyy, congrats!!

 

[singasongofjoy]

That’s a great accomplishment! How well versed are you on the impact of debt/students loans? These PsyD programs are ridiculously expensive, interest starts accruing as soon as you start school (unless the moratorium keeps getting extended), and having a mountain of debt will greatly impact decisions years down the life after graduating.

The big lack in you CV is publication experience (and not additional clinical experiences, which you’ve got more than enough of) as that is an important evaluative component for funded PhDs. You could have years of ‘support’ experiences like data entry and lit review but the next step up is poster/manuscript prep and submission. Good luck!

this^^^^ especially about the impact of loans (and take into account the places you interview - what is the cost of living, avg number of years until people go onto internship)? I recommend doing grad school like you're a college student if you can - get roommates, live cheap (I bet this forum could collectively come up with plenty of interesting and creative tips on that one! it all adds up, though! Carry a bag of ziploc bags in your backpack for all the free leftover food that is going to get tossed after interviews and such (I may have got some side eyes from my fellow students, but they still ate that pizza at our study sessions and there was one admin that started bringing it to my study area at the end of the day 🙂 )

 

[singasongofjoy]

Hello, looking for some feedback and advice on my chances of getting accepted in a doctoral program for clinical psychology. I applied to some PsyD programs for fall 2022 and I'm still waiting to hear back, but I'm preparing for worst case scenario of reapplying to programs again this fall (and included some balanced PhD programs as well).

As of now: Loyola Maryland PsyD waitlisted and waiting to hear back after interviews with Xavier University, Widener University, and Roosevelt University. I was accepted into two PsyD programs, but I have since learned that they would likely do more harm than good for my career, and as such I will not be attending either. I'm also considering reapplying even if I get accepted into one of the four aforementioned programs due to the debt associated with them (hence the potential inclusion of balanced PhDs in the second go-around).

So about me:

Graduated May 2021 B.S. in Psychology, minors in art and chemistry
Overall GPA: 3.73
Psych GPA: 3.90
GRE: 159V 160Q 5.5 AW

Currently working as a behavioral health technician at a treatment center for substance abuse (been there since this previous November). This is really the only clinical (if it counts as such) experience I have as of now.

As far as research experience, I worked as a research assistant during my junior and senior years of undergrad. I did prepare and propose a research study in my junior year, which awarded me a spot in a summer fellowship at my school. However, this was cancelled because of the initial covid outbreak and as a rising senior i could not reapply 🙁 that was kinda my only shot. I did do all of the initial proposal steps (lit review, editing abstract and official proposal, working with grad student supervisor and PI for plausible topics and execution, etc.) The program would have been a 10 week program, working 40hrs/week with a $4000 stipend and involved presenting a poster on results/findings at a forum. Obviously I didn't get this experience, but does it mean anything that I did all the lead up work and was accepted to the fellowship? Otherwise, I was still involved in data entry/verification, assisting in creating databases for collection (SPSS), helping grad students with their lit reviews/projects/presentations, preparing study materials, etc for 2 years. That's all I've got though.

I was involved in volunteer/community service work while in undergrad and on the executive board for two volunteer organizations (one focused on empowering minority women, the other mentoring underrepresented kids and adolescents). Also in three honor societies (but I don't think that matters much for grad school?). However, I haven't been involved in any community service work since I graduated almost a year ago.

My main concerns are that I don't have enough relevant research and clinical experience to be seen as a qualified applicant for a doctoral program. I'm aiming to find a new job this year, ideally involved in research to strengthen my chances, but in that case, is applying again this fall too soon? Should I take until fall of 2023 to really get quality experience to apply again. I'm also worried about starting grad school too late or being out of the flow of school for too long in that scenario.

Any advice/feedback/input would be greatly appreciated. I would be the first in my family to attend grad school so I'm really learning as I go (not much guidance from anyone right now). I can't help but feel like despite getting invited to interviews, I'm just not as qualified or experienced as the people who may be applying at the same time as me (maybe its true, maybe its imposter syndrome. doesn't feel great either way)

EDIT: I have realized that my lack of research experience will likely make me completely unable to get into a program. Any advice on how long or how much experience would give me even a chance?

Dont concern yourself with "being out of the flow of school for too long." Frankly I think there are many many advantages to that and it won't hurt you as long as you're doing something related in the time. takign the time to do something in research sounds like a great idea a you'd be more likely perhaps to get into program with more funding or at least have more options overall. In my grad program, at least half the students had 2 or more years gap between undergrad and grad school. They also tended to be the ones to handle the stress better and get out faster.

 

[rkiveluvr]

Hi everyone,
As someone who is technically a “nontraditional” candidate, I’d really appreciate your opinions on my standing as an applicant. I graduated from undergrad in the spring of 2021, am working a gap year job in substance abuse research, and I am planning to apply for admission in the Fall 2023 semester.
I started out my undergrad at a large, public research university with the intention of pursuing medicine. After attending therapy & learning more about psychology in senior year, I decided to finish out my bachelor’s degree before switching routes, taking a gap year, and pursuing clinical psychology grad programs. Below are my stats:

Education:

• BS Neuroscience & BA Spanish with 3.65 GPA, 2021 (I don’t have separate GPA breakdowns for each degree)
• Psych Classes I’ve taken: AP Psych in high school, personality & developmental in college (A’s) , and I just finished abnormal psych (B+) this summer to supplement my applications. I also completed research methods, but for neuroscience.

GRE: 161 VR (87th percentile), 160 QR (67th percentile), 5.0 AW (91st percentile)

Undergrad Research Experience: (a lot of my experience was shadowing and grunt work/data entry & collection, but helped me gain soft skills and narrow my research interests):

• 1 year in a study of exercise-based interventions in older adults 65+
• 2 years in a neurology lab focused on multiple sclerosis

Publications:

• Primary co-author of a publication in Frontiers in Neurology from my neuro lab experience. This publication doubled as my Neuroscience undergraduate thesis.

Work/Current Research Experience (my current gap year job):

• Research & Admin Assistant at an addiction care & research unit in a major city with a vulnerable patient population. My job gives me a ton of different kinds of research exposure in the context of tackling the opioid crisis: I do research project management, and participate in many kinds of studies, including epidemiological cohort studies, community-based interventions, and qualitative interview projects.

Career Interest:

• Broadly interested generational trauma, the impact of trauma on children & adolescents and family dynamics, especially in ethnic minority & immigrant families
• I would like to do a mix of individual/family counseling and mezzo/macro-level work (I am still fleshing out this interest--definitely research, possibly teaching, community-level work, etc)

Schools I am interested in (a rudimentary list--I am still finding programs):

• Roosevelt PsyD
• Yeshiva PsyD
• Palo Alto PsyD
• Loyola PsyD
• University of Washington PhD
• Seattle Pacific University PhD

I am interested in pursuing a PsyD or PhD in a major city--leaning more towards the PhD route because of the more preferable location options, but I am concerned about if I am even competitive for a funded PhD program. My undergrad experience had little to do with psychology, and my scores are average. However, my lived experience and current work experience have given me ample opportunity to realize that this is the career I am meant to pursue.

What do you think? I would like to know if I am competitive enough to apply at these schools, or any funded PhD for that matter. I know that once I’m given a shot to speak on my interest in this field, I can prove my sincerity and passion, but I know that passion isn’t enough to earn me admission to a rigorous program. Is there anything I can actively work on improving, like GRE, etc, that can get me through the door?

I am still on the hunt for programs to apply to, so I am open to any and all suggestions for reputable PsyD or PhD programs that might be a good fit!

I really appreciate your feedback--I’m the first person in my family to go into this field and I don’t have personal resources/mentors that I can compare myself to. This forum has given me so much perspective already--I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[summerbabe]

Broadly interested generational trauma, the impact of trauma on children & adolescents and family dynamics, especially in ethnic minority & immigrant families

One piece of feedback that you can consider is related to fit, especially for funded programs, where your PI may be solely responsible for making offers based on how well they think you fit and can contribute to their line of research.

Clinical psych programs also tend to focus on the individual and their relation to mental health. There’s probably a good chunk of trauma research happening in various clinical psych programs but I doubt any of it is on its generational aspects since systems-based work tends to happen in the MFT and social work realms (and in some counseling psych PhDs). Nor would that type of dialogue or informal inquiry happen often (or ever) at most clinical psych programs.

So if you’re pretty sure you want this to be your dissertation, you may struggle to find a fit, even if your application is top notch. I’m not very familiar with PsyDs but given less emphasis on research and less emphasis on lab/PI-based offers, you’re likely to have much more leeway (but at the cost of spending a whole bunch of money that will hamper your adult life).

Now can you absolutely still hold this as an interest and do other things with PhD research or decide to work on this as a clinician, no problem. But at least for funded PhDs, research fit is likely extremely crucial.

Lastly, if you are adament on being in a metro or a specific region, you are almost certainly going to sacrifice program fit and significantly increase your chances of leaving school with $200,000+ debt as the vast majority of funded programs are not in a metro.

I enjoy working as a clinical psychologist and came out of my funded program largely debt free. If I had to assume a decent debt burden, I’m almost certain I would not make the same choice. Between the long time spent in school and training (and not making any money) and average psychologist salaries, the PsyD debt load is 100% not be worth it for me. Good luck!

 

[smalltownpsych]

Hi everyone,
As someone who is technically a “nontraditional” candidate, I’d really appreciate your opinions on my standing as an applicant. I graduated from undergrad in the spring of 2021, am working a gap year job in substance abuse research, and I am planning to apply for admission in the Fall 2023 semester.
I started out my undergrad at a large, public research university with the intention of pursuing medicine. After attending therapy & learning more about psychology in senior year, I decided to finish out my bachelor’s degree before switching routes, taking a gap year, and pursuing clinical psychology grad programs. Below are my stats:

Education:

• BS Neuroscience & BA Spanish with 3.65 GPA, 2021 (I don’t have separate GPA breakdowns for each degree)
• Psych Classes I’ve taken: AP Psych in high school, personality & developmental in college (A’s) , and I just finished abnormal psych (B+) this summer to supplement my applications. I also completed research methods, but for neuroscience.

GRE: 161 VR (87th percentile), 160 QR (67th percentile), 5.0 AW (91st percentile)

Undergrad Research Experience: (a lot of my experience was shadowing and grunt work/data entry & collection, but helped me gain soft skills and narrow my research interests):

• 1 year in a study of exercise-based interventions in older adults 65+
• 2 years in a neurology lab focused on multiple sclerosis

Publications:

• Primary co-author of a publication in Frontiers in Neurology from my neuro lab experience. This publication doubled as my Neuroscience undergraduate thesis.

Work/Current Research Experience (my current gap year job):

• Research & Admin Assistant at an addiction care & research unit in a major city with a vulnerable patient population. My job gives me a ton of different kinds of research exposure in the context of tackling the opioid crisis: I do research project management, and participate in many kinds of studies, including epidemiological cohort studies, community-based interventions, and qualitative interview projects.

Career Interest:

• Broadly interested generational trauma, the impact of trauma on children & adolescents and family dynamics, especially in ethnic minority & immigrant families
• I would like to do a mix of individual/family counseling and mezzo/macro-level work (I am still fleshing out this interest--definitely research, possibly teaching, community-level work, etc)

Schools I am interested in (a rudimentary list--I am still finding programs):

• Roosevelt PsyD
• Yeshiva PsyD
• Palo Alto PsyD
• Loyola PsyD
• University of Washington PhD
• Seattle Pacific University PhD

I am interested in pursuing a PsyD or PhD in a major city--leaning more towards the PhD route because of the more preferable location options, but I am concerned about if I am even competitive for a funded PhD program. My undergrad experience had little to do with psychology, and my scores are average. However, my lived experience and current work experience have given me ample opportunity to realize that this is the career I am meant to pursue.

What do you think? I would like to know if I am competitive enough to apply at these schools, or any funded PhD for that matter. I know that once I’m given a shot to speak on my interest in this field, I can prove my sincerity and passion, but I know that passion isn’t enough to earn me admission to a rigorous program. Is there anything I can actively work on improving, like GRE, etc, that can get me through the door?

I am still on the hunt for programs to apply to, so I am open to any and all suggestions for reputable PsyD or PhD programs that might be a good fit!

I really appreciate your feedback--I’m the first person in my family to go into this field and I don’t have personal resources/mentors that I can compare myself to. This forum has given me so much perspective already--I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

I second what summerbabe said about limiting to metro areas. Why? I was in LA for my doctoral program and years before that and left for internship and have been exploring some fascinating aspects of Americas culture that exist outside the narrow range of metro experience. Native Americans, Hutterites, polygamists, Jamaican bobsledders (seriously, the town I did my internship is where the real dude that the movie was based on moved to), ranchers, Peruvian sheep herders, farmers, mountain men, etc. Also, dealing with a culture of poverty that manifests much differently than what I observed and worked with in the city.

I probably enjoyed getting to know the Native American people the most and spent quite a few years working with both the young and the old. One of the oldest I worked with had been sent to the boarding schools as a child to have the “Indian stamped out of her”. She had amazing stories to tell of her life and how her grandparents would show up at certain times of the year to camp out because they were still living a nomadic lifestyle. I also got to see first hand and did what I could to ameliorate the damage that was done by the systematic attempt to eradicate a culture and how that ripples down through generations.

The city is always there if you decide to go back, but since you’ll probably need to move during training anyway why not broaden that scope right off the bat?

 

[ccool]

Hi everyone,
As someone who is technically a “nontraditional” candidate, I’d really appreciate your opinions on my standing as an applicant. I graduated from undergrad in the spring of 2021, am working a gap year job in substance abuse research, and I am planning to apply for admission in the Fall 2023 semester.
I started out my undergrad at a large, public research university with the intention of pursuing medicine. After attending therapy & learning more about psychology in senior year, I decided to finish out my bachelor’s degree before switching routes, taking a gap year, and pursuing clinical psychology grad programs. Below are my stats:

Education:

• BS Neuroscience & BA Spanish with 3.65 GPA, 2021 (I don’t have separate GPA breakdowns for each degree)
• Psych Classes I’ve taken: AP Psych in high school, personality & developmental in college (A’s) , and I just finished abnormal psych (B+) this summer to supplement my applications. I also completed research methods, but for neuroscience.

GRE: 161 VR (87th percentile), 160 QR (67th percentile), 5.0 AW (91st percentile)

Undergrad Research Experience: (a lot of my experience was shadowing and grunt work/data entry & collection, but helped me gain soft skills and narrow my research interests):

• 1 year in a study of exercise-based interventions in older adults 65+
• 2 years in a neurology lab focused on multiple sclerosis

Publications:

• Primary co-author of a publication in Frontiers in Neurology from my neuro lab experience. This publication doubled as my Neuroscience undergraduate thesis.

Work/Current Research Experience (my current gap year job):

• Research & Admin Assistant at an addiction care & research unit in a major city with a vulnerable patient population. My job gives me a ton of different kinds of research exposure in the context of tackling the opioid crisis: I do research project management, and participate in many kinds of studies, including epidemiological cohort studies, community-based interventions, and qualitative interview projects.

Career Interest:

• Broadly interested generational trauma, the impact of trauma on children & adolescents and family dynamics, especially in ethnic minority & immigrant families
• I would like to do a mix of individual/family counseling and mezzo/macro-level work (I am still fleshing out this interest--definitely research, possibly teaching, community-level work, etc)

Schools I am interested in (a rudimentary list--I am still finding programs):

• Roosevelt PsyD
• Yeshiva PsyD
• Palo Alto PsyD
• Loyola PsyD
• University of Washington PhD
• Seattle Pacific University PhD

I am interested in pursuing a PsyD or PhD in a major city--leaning more towards the PhD route because of the more preferable location options, but I am concerned about if I am even competitive for a funded PhD program. My undergrad experience had little to do with psychology, and my scores are average. However, my lived experience and current work experience have given me ample opportunity to realize that this is the career I am meant to pursue.

What do you think? I would like to know if I am competitive enough to apply at these schools, or any funded PhD for that matter. I know that once I’m given a shot to speak on my interest in this field, I can prove my sincerity and passion, but I know that passion isn’t enough to earn me admission to a rigorous program. Is there anything I can actively work on improving, like GRE, etc, that can get me through the door?

I am still on the hunt for programs to apply to, so I am open to any and all suggestions for reputable PsyD or PhD programs that might be a good fit!

I really appreciate your feedback--I’m the first person in my family to go into this field and I don’t have personal resources/mentors that I can compare myself to. This forum has given me so much perspective already--I look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Hi! First I would not call you nontraditional at all. Perhaps not having your undergrad degree in psych.. but you have all the critical prerequisites.

I am not familiar with the schools you list offhand but from your stats and experiences I think you are competitive for funded Ph.D. Programs.. I think you could benefit from producing one or two products (poster or two at national conference, co-author manuscript, or non-academic writing such as a policy brief or two..but some people won’t care about this) from your current lab.

I’m sure you know this from the research you’ve done, but the main thing to remember is that you’re 1st applying to a person, a PI, 2nd to a program, and 3rd to a university. I think your interests are suited to clinical psychology just fine. Though to summerbabe’s point, my experience has been that you would be in a minority of people who actively apply systems-level inquiry to their work. You can do it and find mentors who do but it is more challenging than following the status quo. On the flipside, many recent academic hiring announcements are specifically seeking candidates with these types of interests and experiences..bc students and non-dominant folx are pushing for these precise system-level changes in the field. Counseling psych programs are more amenable to this work as well as clinical-community psych and perhaps clinical programs/PIs with strong developmental psych links.

You would be well-served by starting literature searches of the things you’re interested in pursuing in grad school. Search the authors and their affiliations. Are they affiliated with a clinical or counseling psych program or other program of possible interest? Find their lab website, find other publications, search what their current and former grad students are doing. Are there other faculty of interest? Learn more about the program. Do you resonate with their mission, are you interested in placements or community engagement opportunities they have to offer? Add them to your list if they seem like a good fit. And onwards.

Last, re location, it is important that you go somewhere that you feel like you can live 4/5 years of your life. It is also important to weigh your goals and be open to possibilities at life satisfaction that did not originally occur to you. Limiting yourself to a specific area is indeed limiting. But only you know what your boundaries and needs are and what costs you’re willing to pay to meet them.

 

[futurepsyd2024]

Education:

Associate of Gen. Liberal Arts from my local community college

Going into senior year pursuing a BS in Psych with a minor in Jewish Studies at a T50 private research uni

Stats:

GPA from associate degree: 3.6

Current GPA: 3.79

Current Psych GPA: 3.8

I have made deans list multiple semesters, different honor societies, good relations with profs. Not taking the GRE.

Research:

By the time I graduate, I will have 2 years experience in a Social Psych lab. Focuses on research of prejudice/dehumanization. I mostly run participants/log data/participate in lab meetings. I am not crazy interested in research and want to pursue a more clinical route working with children/individuals with mental illness.

Work/volunteer/clinical:

I am involved in multiple orgs on campus, including a veteran advocacy org (does community service for/with vets) and a peer sexual assault hotline/education org (I do survivor advocacy/provide support and learn about prevention work). This summer, I have been working at a summer camp with children. I also babysit. I am in Psi Chi/psych club and jewish leaders program.

Letters of Rec:

I think I will have solide recs. One from PI from my lab. One from a psych prof I am close with. Maybe one from the supervisor of the peer sa hotline.

I am interested in becoming a clinical psychologist (PsyD) and working with children. I am very passionate about working with people suffering from mental illness. I know I will get comments about how PsyDs are not worth the debt, but my program will be fully paid for using money my grandparents left me when they passed away. So that is not a worry. I will be applying for Fall 2023. Please let me know if you have advice on how I can strengthen my app from now to then. Thank you for your help!
Applying to:

Baylor PsyD

UDenver PsyD

Yeshiva PsyD

Widener PsyD

Florida Tech PsyD

Chicago School of Professional Psych PsyD

LaSalle PsyD

 

[jdawg2017]

Education:

Associate of Gen. Liberal Arts from my local community college

Going into senior year pursuing a BS in Psych with a minor in Jewish Studies at a T50 private research uni

Stats:

GPA from associate degree: 3.6

Current GPA: 3.79

Current Psych GPA: 3.8

I have made deans list multiple semesters, different honor societies, good relations with profs. Not taking the GRE.

Research:

By the time I graduate, I will have 2 years experience in a Social Psych lab. Focuses on research of prejudice/dehumanization. I mostly run participants/log data/participate in lab meetings. I am not crazy interested in research and want to pursue a more clinical route working with children/individuals with mental illness.

Work/volunteer/clinical:

I am involved in multiple orgs on campus, including a veteran advocacy org (does community service for/with vets) and a peer sexual assault hotline/education org (I do survivor advocacy/provide support and learn about prevention work). This summer, I have been working at a summer camp with children. I also babysit. I am in Psi Chi/psych club and jewish leaders program.

Letters of Rec:

I think I will have solide recs. One from PI from my lab. One from a psych prof I am close with. Maybe one from the supervisor of the peer sa hotline.

I am interested in becoming a clinical psychologist (PsyD) and working with children. I am very passionate about working with people suffering from mental illness. I know I will get comments about how PsyDs are not worth the debt, but my program will be fully paid for using money my grandparents left me when they passed away. So that is not a worry. I will be applying for Fall 2023. Please let me know if you have advice on how I can strengthen my app from now to then. Thank you for your help!
Applying to:

Baylor PsyD

UDenver PsyD

Yeshiva PsyD

Widener PsyD

Florida Tech PsyD

Chicago School of Professional Psych PsyD

LaSalle PsyD

It seems to me like you have a solid GPA. Be sure to check all of these programs have dropped the GRE, as some programs will require it (at least from what I am aware of... the field hasn't totally ditched it just yet). Your volunteering experiences and other experiences sound good to me.

One question I have is what is your ultimate goal, or what do you want to do in your "typical" work day in the future? While pursuing a PsyD might be reasonable for you (especially if you have a quite large inheritance from your grandparents [low six figures]), you may be able to accomplish the same day-to-day objectives with an MSW or another terminal master's degree that makes you license-eligible. For example, if your primary goal is to be a therapist you may not need to do 4-5 years of grad school in a PsyD program, 1 year of internship, and at least 1 year of post-doc when the goal of doing therapy can be achieved much quicker (and cheaper) with a master's degree. Also, the money you don't spend on tuition could be used elsewhere (buying a home or other assets, saving for future children's education [if you want to have kids], etc.).

If you have interests in diagnostic assessment or neuropsych, a PsyD may be appropriate for you if you really are against pursuing a PhD since it sounds like you have little-to-no interest in research.