2016-2017 Saint Louis University Application Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Members do not see this ad.
drjmd2be said:
dang so basically people who interviewed in feb were interviewing for a waitlist position...
Click to expand...
Hau5MD said:
I really hope that's not the case 😕
Click to expand...
It looks like everyone from December was waitlsited as well. We've been interviewing for wait list spots for a while.

On the bright side: This means they might simply accept until the class is full and then stop, which means there could be decent WL movement.
 
CharlieBillings said:
It looks like everyone from December was waitlsited as well. We've been interviewing for wait list spots for a while.

On the bright side: This means they might simply accept until the class is full and then stop, which means there could be decent WL movement.
Click to expand...
Does that mean not all interviewees are placed on WL? I thought this was their default set up.
 
JinxADC&MD said:
Uh. Ruh roh... Any admitted students see that e-mail? Although I really did appreciate the transparency.
Click to expand...

I'll personally probably be withdrawing today because this is the last push I need to go to one of my other schools.

Edit: officially rescinded my application, best of luck to whomever ends up going here next year! I hope everything gets sorted 🙂
 
Last edited:
Obviously I'm not an expert on the LCME's perceived deficiencies in the curriculum since we received the notice at the same time you did, but if you all have any questions about the things that were brought up by the LCME I'd be happy to answer them.
 
Buttermellow said:
Obviously I'm not an expert on the LCME's perceived deficiencies in the curriculum since we received the notice at the same time you did, but if you all have any questions about the things that were brought up by the LCME I'd be happy to answer them.
Click to expand...
Ya I really don't know what to think... I mean on one hand its good that these things were identified-- it will allow the school to improve. I feel like there will definitely be a push to listen to student and faculty feedback. However, as I am about to invest four years and a lot of $$$, I'm wondering how big you think these problems are? How prepared is the school to respond to these concerns? How seriously are they going to take this?
 
I woke up and saw an email notification and partial subject line from SLU School of Medicine and got really excited, then opened it and read the email and attachment. I'm in glass case of emotion!
 
Can someone explain what the probation is all about? I'm an admitted student and after reading that email I'm having 2nd thoughts about going here...
 
lcme1.PNG
lcme1_5.PNG
lcme2.PNG
lcme3.PNG


I have every confidence that they are taking this very seriously. As you may have heard during your interview, SLU implemented a completely revamped curriculum a few years ago (I think my class was the 1st or 2nd class to start M1 with the new curriculum). The new curriculum is wonderful, but I think, as does the Dean, that it created some gaps (not in education, but in the processes used to evaluate the curriculum and in the management of the curriculum). I've had nothing but extremely positive views of how they handle the curriculum and how they are constantly striving to incorporate students' feedback and improve.

I've attached some screenshots of the exacts findings the LCME reported, so you can read them yourselves.
 
VonDuder said:
Can someone explain what the probation is all about? I'm an admitted student and after reading that email I'm having 2nd thoughts about going here...
Click to expand...
Here's an additional article, maybe some of this will help make it a little more clear...
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_e61e1775-c17e-560c-9175-ef40bea9768e.html

Several schools have been placed on probation by LCME in recent past, so the situation isn't unique to SLU. It sounds like some of their issues can be resolved quickly (paperwork, proper documentation, etc) and some might take a bit more time to address. I think it's important to note that the program is still accredited, and kudos to Dean Behrns for the program's transparency. With the vested interest they have in their students, and to maintain the program's reputation, I expect they will take their shortcomings very seriously and work quickly to correct them.
 
swans3 said:
Ya I really don't know what to think... I mean on one hand its good that these things were identified-- it will allow the school to improve. I feel like there will definitely be a push to listen to student and faculty feedback. However, as I am about to invest four years and a lot of $$$, I'm wondering how big you think these problems are? How prepared is the school to respond to these concerns? How seriously are they going to take this?
Click to expand...

I know that they are taking this very seriously. From our first block, the school has been committed to innovating and incorporating student feedback in order to make the curriculum the best it can be. After every unit, students meet to discuss what was good about the unit and what needs improvement. This feedback is given to the course director and the deans in order to improve the block. I've never felt uncomfortable bringing a concern to one of the deans, and the class presidents also serve as liaisons between the students and the administration, and have helped solve numerous problems, however small or large, that the class (or individuals) has brought up. SLU truly cares about its students' education as well as serving the community, so this probation comes as a bit of a shock, but I have full confidence in their dedication to go above and beyond to make the school better.
 
They had to let us know on 314 day lol
 
I did some research. Baylor and RFU (chicago) were on probation recently as well. Some of the cited concerns included inadequate study space during dedicated (refers to STEP1) and insufficient lockers - take that into consideration as well.
 
JinxADC&MD said:
I did some research. Baylor and RFU (chicago) were on probation recently as well. Some of the cited concerns included inadequate study space during dedicated (refers to STEP1) and insufficient lockers - take that into consideration as well.
Click to expand...
But if you read the actual list of concerns, this isn't trivial matters. This is a concern with their curriculum
 
NeedACar said:
But if you read the actual list of concerns, this isn't trivial matters. This is a concern with their curriculum
Click to expand...

Im just telling you what I found. I did read SLU's and Baylor's (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/new...g-body-places-Baylor-on-probation-5585791.php). It sounds bad when you read Baylor's deficiencies in 2014 too, but the quality of the school is still the same. Don't get me wrong - I am concerned as well. Im just trying to figure out how big of a deal this actually is.
 
Last edited:
I'm sure SLU will get it sorted out fast, their transparency about what's going on is a pretty good sign. From the LCME statement, it seems like part of the problem is a lack of clearly defined course objectives?
 
I know that it is unlikely that Saint Louis would lose accreditation. But, in worst case scenario, do you guys know what would happen if Saint Louis loses accreditation while we are in medical school? Do we just lose our money and time?
 
xodrn said:
I know that it is unlikely that Saint Louis would lose accreditation. But, in worst case scenario, do you guys know what would happen if Saint Louis loses accreditation while we are in medical school? Do we just lose our money and time?
Click to expand...
I have no facts to back this up, but I would imagine students couldn't sit for national board exams, match for residency, etc. Doing a quick search, I don't see a US school that has ever had its accreditation revoked.

I think this announcement has incited panic in a lot of people. Not to say the situation isn't worth anyone's concern, but the program has a lot of time to channel resources (financial, personnel, among others) to fix the problems, and I'm fully confident they'll get it taken of.
 
I can see sitting tight and riding it out if SLU is your only MD acceptance. However, I am curious what are the people with multiple acceptances doing?
 
Last edited:
ChicagoBear said:
I can see sitting tight and riding it out if SLU is your only MD acceptance. However, I am curious what are the people with multiple acceptances doing?
Click to expand...

Well the true P/F curriculum and non-mandatory lecture attendance are very enticing pros. Was pretty committed on going here but now I'm a little worried.
 
xiquarius said:
There is a reason to be worried. SLU has been working on its current curriculum for over 4 years. In fact, they were planning on continuing its expansion since it was considered a prized aspect of the school (better for student mental health). And suddenly they're expected to shift that drastically to a different type of curriculum? In less than half the time it took to develop the current one? It's not going to be an immediate change, especially within the one year time frame the current Dean is proposing.

In addition, there are 23 issues that need to be addressed, some administrative, some that need fundamental uprooting in order to turn around. That's pretty embarrassing to be revealed to be lacking in these regards. For comparison, Mizzou was also put on probation a while back, but they only had 4 issues. I don't blame people for wanting to look elsewhere since this news came out.
Click to expand...
I guess I didn't interpret the report as them needing to overhaul the curriculum itself, more how it's managed and overseen.

"The report identified deficiencies in documentation, missed opportunities for self-directed learning, curricular management issues and a lack of central oversight."

I agree with you that it's embarrassing for the university, and it is certainly justifiable for people to consider other options
 
xiquarius said:
There is a reason to be worried. SLU has been working on its current curriculum for over 4 years. In fact, they were planning on continuing its expansion since it was considered a prized aspect of the school (better for student mental health). And suddenly they're expected to shift that drastically to a different type of curriculum? In less than half the time it took to develop the current one? It's not going to be an immediate change, especially within the one year time frame the current Dean is proposing.

In addition, there are 23 issues that need to be addressed, some administrative, some that need fundamental uprooting in order to turn around. That's pretty embarrassing to be revealed to be lacking in these regards. For comparison, Mizzou was also put on probation a while back, but they only had 4 issues. I don't blame people for wanting to look elsewhere since this news came out.
Click to expand...

We can speculate all we want but we're not current medical students so we have no idea what these LCME cited deficiencies truly mean and their impact. It was interesting to see what current medical students and residents who are currently at or went to SLU and Baylor had to say. Seems like they aren't making nearly as big of a deal about it as we are.

https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalsch...=hot&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=medicalschool
 
ScottTenorman54 said:
I'm sure SLU will get it sorted out fast, their transparency about what's going on is a pretty good sign. From the LCME statement, it seems like part of the problem is a lack of clearly defined course objectives?
Click to expand...

From what I know from attending SLU, and from sitting in on a town hall meeting today with the Dean, it wasn't really a lack of course objectives or a problem with the quality of the curriculum, more that whatever objectives were outlined for units didn't have quantifiable, data-driven outcomes. Some of the citations, to both students and faculty, were completely refutable; however, documentation that would have upheld aspects of the curriculum were missing in the initial visit. I'm not sure if someone ****ed up or the administration just didn't plan well for the LCME accreditation process, but many of those citations do not corroborate my and my classmates' experiences. I do applaud their transparency; it is not something new for the school to be upfront and honest with everyone, which is something I really like about it.

Bred&Butter said:
I guess I didn't interpret the report as them needing to overhaul the curriculum itself, more how it's managed and overseen.

"The report identified deficiencies in documentation, missed opportunities for self-directed learning, curricular management issues and a lack of central oversight."

I agree with you that it's embarrassing for the university, and it is certainly justifiable for people to consider other options
Click to expand...

Correct. The curriculum itself is sound. Deficiencies in documentation, I could definitely see being true. Missed opportunities for self-directed learning... I'm not sure how they came to that decision. There is a lot of self-directed learning and small-group learning opportunities.

xiquarius said:
There is a reason to be worried. SLU has been working on its current curriculum for over 4 years. In fact, they were planning on continuing its expansion since it was considered a prized aspect of the school (better for student mental health). And suddenly they're expected to shift that drastically to a different type of curriculum? In less than half the time it took to develop the current one? It's not going to be an immediate change, especially within the one year time frame the current Dean is proposing.

In addition, there are 23 issues that need to be addressed, some administrative, some that need fundamental uprooting in order to turn around. That's pretty embarrassing to be revealed to be lacking in these regards. For comparison, Mizzou was also put on probation a while back, but they only had 4 issues. I don't blame people for wanting to look elsewhere since this news came out.
Click to expand...

From what I heard the Dean speak about today, the LCME approved of the curriculum itself. They don't have plans to overhaul the new curriculum or adapt to a "drastically different type." The problems are with lack of data-driven objectives. The things that make SLU a great school are not going to change, there is just going to be more paperwork and administrative oversight to make sure the ducks are all in a row.

JinxADC&MD said:
Well the true P/F curriculum and non-mandatory lecture attendance are very enticing pros. Was pretty committed on going here but now I'm a little worried.
Click to expand...

Don't worry, they will not be getting rid of the non-mandatory lecture or true P/F. Those were not included in the list of citations or what was communicated to the Dean. It sucks that they're having this problem, but they are nowhere close to losing accreditation and I know that they're going to remedy these problems quickly. If you have any questions feel free to ask them here or PM, myself or one of my classmates would be happy to answer them. I really love SLU and the education I got here, even with these "deficiencies" myself and my classmates obviously had a good education and a great experience. If anything, you'll get an even better experience since this came out and they're working hard to fix gaps.
 
xiquarius said:
The lack of data-driven objectives is the exact reason why SLU's curriculum needs to be overhauled with oversight. We lack proper validation for whether our curriculum works or not. Students and faculty can say the curriculum meets objectives set by the LCME, but the LCME is directly saying that we do not meet standards. In addition, the Dean also noted that the Step 1 scores this year were lower than previous years. There is an obvious focus on mental health, which is good! However, there needs to be a balance between mental health and challenge that meets the standards.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. You can't say a curriculum works without having objective validation. Though on the other hand, it's not like Step scores dropped 20 points, if I recall correctly it was a few points, which could be within the normal year-to-year variation? Not sure. There obviously needs to be some tweaking, and I do think there needs to be more board-directed teaching during lectures and less "I'm a PhD and this is what my research is about."
 
If the school does not meet standards in two years, what does that mean for the students?
 
Also, if this is someones only acceptance, would reapplying the following year be a red flag to all med schools? Are they like blacklisted ?
 
Dr. Dr said:
Also, if this is someones only acceptance, would reapplying the following year be a red flag to all med schools? Are they like blacklisted ?
Click to expand...

Don't do that. AMCAS will ask if you have been accepted and/or matriculated at another school, and that will be a huge red flag.
 
Orthosurg1 said:
Don't do that. AMCAS will ask if you have been accepted and/or matriculated at another school, and that will be a huge red flag.
Click to expand...
Isnt a school being on probation a legitimate reason not to go?
 
Dr. Dr said:
Isnt a school being on probation a legitimate reason not to go?
Click to expand...

Personally I don't think it's as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. Seems to be that most of the complaints are administrative (i.e. how they are evaluating their curriculum) instead of student mistreatment concerns. If you were deciding between schools I would maybe be a little cautious, but if it is your only acceptance I would run with it. Yes, there is a minuscule chance that accreditation could be taken away, but this sounds very unlikely. Other big schools, such as Baylor, have been placed on probation in the past, and they're still a great school.
 
Orthosurg1 said:
Personally I don't think it's as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. Seems to be that most of the complaints are administrative (i.e. how they are evaluating their curriculum) instead of student mistreatment concerns. If you were deciding between schools I would maybe be a little cautious, but if it is your only acceptance I would run with it. Yes, there is a minuscule chance that accreditation could be taken away, but this sounds very unlikely. Other big schools, such as Baylor, have been placed on probation in the past, and they're still a great school.
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
Ya I don't think it's that big of a deal, but there have been other schools that took a rank hit after probation. Not sure if that's correlation or causation here.
 
Anyone hear back from mid February yet? It has been over a month since my interview.
 
JPFC said:
+1...Interviewed on 2/14 and still no word.
Click to expand...
Apparently they try to get back to us somewhere around 6 weeks from the interview and present each student in order of interview date.
 
Accepted! Stoked 🙂

Interviewed in December, waitlisted in January. My interview felt really good so I think they were just full with all acceptances out.

Now I need to review more on this probation thing

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

wysdoc
2024-2025 Saint Louis University
6 7 8 9 10
Replies
498
Views
119K
Sue C
Sue C
wysdoc
2023-2024 Saint Louis University
7 8 9 10 11
Replies
541
Views
152K
derek dixon
derek dixon
wysdoc
2024-2025 Washington University in St. Louis
15 16 17 18 19
Replies
947
Views
333K
bananasundae3
B
wysdoc
2022-2023 Saint Louis University
7 8 9 10 11
Replies
517
Views
133K
deleted1150307
D
wysdoc
2024-2025 Ponce (St. Louis)
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
299
Views
49K
derek dixon
derek dixon
Top Bottom