WAMC: What Are My Chances

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fingerscrossed44 said:
I don't think I'd feel comfortable applying unless I had at least 1 presentation or pub under my belt but I'm curious to know what everyone else thinks.
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As things stand currently, if these PIs/programs really value research productivity and they receive lots of apps, it could be an uphill battle as the breadth of your research experiences probably wouldn’t outweigh other candidates whose CV includes posters and pubs.

At the same time, if fit is really good and that mentor isn’t flooded with tons of quality apps in a particular cycle, I wouldn't rule out receiving interview offers.

In terms of weighing whether to apply in 2022 or 23, it’s not uncommon for people to apply multiple times to the same program/PI (if needed) and I think most PIs would welcome reapplying when that individual has clearly improved their CV so you can definitely shoot for continuing to develop your CV and taking a shot with Fall 2022 apps. Good luck!
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summerbabe said:
As things stand currently, if these PIs/programs really value research productivity and they receive lots of apps, it could be an uphill battle as the breadth of your research experiences probably wouldn’t outweigh other candidates whose CV includes posters and pubs.

At the same time, if fit is really good and that mentor isn’t flooded with tons of quality apps in a particular cycle, I wouldn't rule out receiving interview offers.

In terms of weighing whether to apply in 2022 or 23, it’s not uncommon for people to apply multiple times to the same program/PI (if needed) and I think most PIs would welcome reapplying when that individual has clearly improved their CV so you can definitely shoot for continuing to develop your CV and taking a shot with Fall 2022 apps. Good luck!
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That's along the lines of what I was thinking. I went to an open house the other night and 1 current student had no pubs or posters before they applied (but had stats similar to mine) and the other had 7 pubs! It really is crazy how much it depends on who's applying that cycle.

I guess I'll take a shot and apply next year. Thanks!
 
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Hello, applied once before for Fall 2020 to my top 6 programs and got no interview invites. Got into the one masters program I applied to, but I turned it down. Below is my current CV, I am applying to clinical psych, developmental psych, and general psych programs (quantity in decreasing order respectively). Please advise on any changes to be made on my cv as well as to the programs I might want to add/remove from my applications. Below my redacted cv is the list of school I have started applying to this cycle. Thank you!

Education
May 2018 Bachelor of Arts: University X, 3.029 overall GPA, 4.o 60+ credits GPA, 4.0 psychology major GPA, 4.0 Survey Research Minor GPA

Fellowships
September 2017- May 2018 National Science Foundation- Research Experience for
Undergraduates Fellowship (NSF REU)

Manuscripts
Under Review
2nd author COVID-19 paper. not related to my interest area
In-Prep
5th author (In Prep). very related to my area of interest*

Conference Presentations
Posters
1st author (2019, June). SLEEP, San Antonio, Texas.
1st author (2019, June). SLEEP, San Antonio, Texas.
1st author (2019, May). Association for Psychological Science, Washington, D.C.
2nd author (2019, May). Association for Psychological Science, Washington, D.C.
1st author (May, 2019).The British Psychological Society, Harrogate, England.
1st author (2019, April). Western Psychological Association, Pasadena, California.
1st author (2019, March). International Convention of Psychological Science, Paris, France.
2nd author (2019, March). International Convention of Psychological Science, Paris, France.
2nd author (2019, March). Eastern Psychological Association, New York, New York.
1st author (2019, March). Eastern Psychological Association, New York, New York.
1st author (2018, November). New England Psychological Association, Worcester, Massachusetts.
6th author (2017, May). Association for Psychological Science, Boston, MA.

College-level conferences
1st author (2019, May).
1st author (2017, May).

Oral Presentations
2nd author (2017, April). local college

Research Experience

Assistant Research Scientist (my interest area)
September 2021- Current
study evaluating pre-k students.
3rd letter of recommendation - good

Junior Research Scientist (just promoted)(more interested, but still not my primary interest)
September 2021-Current
Lead RA on new NIH funded study. Data analysis and manuscript prep. All previous responsibilities as noted below.
2nd letter of recommendation- excellent

Senior Research Support Specialist (more interested, but still not my primary interest)
November 2018- September 2021
Recruit, screen, schedule, and consent participants for the ...... Conduct structured interviews on alcohol and drug use, relationships, and horrible experiences. Administer neuropsychological assessments (Tower of London and Visual Span) and NIH Toolbox. Contribute to updating study procedures and data collection tools. Maintain organized participant records, manage and enter all data into the monthly data harvest. Assist in manuscript preparation.

Post-Graduate Researcher (not my interest)
November 2018- July 2019
Aided in new study design. Advised research assistants on IRB applications, research protocols, and study procedures. Prepared manuscripts with PI and created and presented poster presentations. Monitored ongoing research studies as the team transitioned to my leaving my role as lab manager.

Lab Manager (sleep research) (not my interest)
May 2017- November 2018
Worked in all aspects of research, from study ideas to dissemination of results. Managed 8 research assistants and 4 psychological studies (Wrote IRB applications and developed two experimental studies with team: ....
Managed a freelance programmer in creating a dependent variable item (math task that measures effort) according to the blueprint we created. Verified the accuracy and validity of data entered into databases.
Developed and implemented research quality control procedures. Recruited, screened, scheduled, and consented research participants. Communicated interdepartmentally in order to ensure Sleep Lab and Athletic team collaboration. Conducted literature reviews on resilience, naps, sleep, personality, sustainability, effort, optimism, and leadership. Trained research assistants in Actigraph watch initialization and data analysis.
1st Recommendation Letter- excellent

Principle Investigator
Advanced Survey Research Practicum Course Project
January 2018- September 2019
Advisor: (deceased; no recommendation letter)
Only student to obtain IRB approval. Independently designed an experimental survey study exploring the effects of expectations on performance and subjective evaluation/enjoyment of a task (mirror-tracing task). Data analysis in SPSS depicts non-significant results. Findings presented at a local college-level conference.

Research Assistant
October 2016- May 2017
Completed literature reviews on naps, sleep, and effort. Assisted in data collection. Edited IRB application documents and presented research findings at national and local conferences.

Clinical Experience

Intern
June 2017- January 2018
Led one-on-one guided journaling sessions with clients admitted to the drug related crimes program. Completed and maintained records and reports of patients' histories, progress, and services provided. Referred clients to treatment programs based on research of rehabilitation programs and client histories.

Professional Affiliations

2017- 2019 Student member of the Association for Psychological Science
2018- 2019 Student member of the New England Psychological Association
2018- 2019 Student member of the Eastern Psychological Association

Skills
Qualtrics
Redcap
Fluent in Russian
Microsoft Word, Excel, and Powerpoint proficient
SPSS- basic familiarity

I am interested in developmental psychology research and am mostly applying to clinical psych programs because I would like the flexibility in my career as well as a genuine interest in being a therapist in addition to being a professor (or doing it if I need a break from teaching or research later in my career)

currently applying to:
Fordham UApplied Developmental Psych
Penn State UClinical Psych
U of TulsaClinical Psych
Southern Illinois UClinical Psych
U of MinnesotaClinical Psych
Western Michigan UClinical Psych
CUNY City collegeClinical Psych
BinghamtonClinical Psych
Clark UClinical Psych
U albanyClinical Psych
Kent State UClinical Psych
Wayne State UClinical Psych
U of BuffaloClinical Psych
U Colorado BoulderClinical Psych
U of OregonClinical Psych
Yale UClinical Psych
U of RochesterClinical Psych
Teachers college- Columbia UClinical Psych
U of North Carolina chapel hillClinical Psych
U of WashingtonClinical Psych
U of PennsylvaniaClinical Psych
IUPUI Clinical Psychology PhD at IUPUIClinical Psych
U ConnecticutClinical Psych
U of MichiganClinical Psych
Washington State UClinical Psych
U wisonsin madisonClinical Psych
Northwestern UClinical Psych
Syracuse UClinical Psych
StanfordDevelopmental Psychology
Boston UDevelopmental Psychology
Harvard UDevelopmental Psychology
Notre DameDevelopmental Psychology
Temple UDevelopmental Psychology
CUNY Grad centerDevelopmental Psychology
Columbia UDevelopmental Psychology
NYUDevelopmental Psychology
Duke UDevelopmental Psychology
Indiana U- BloomingtonDevelopmental Psychology/clinical as second choice
Cornell UHuman Development
carnagie melonPsychology Phd
PrincetonPsychology Phd
Rutgers UPsychology PhD- cognitive or neuro
DartmouthSOCIAL AND AFFECTIVE NEUROSCIENCE

Any safety school I should add? Many of the above are highly competitive and I really want to start a program as I am 4 years out of college now. Thanks!
 
propsych said:
Hello, applied once before for Fall 2020 to my top 6 programs and got no interview invites. Got into the one masters program I applied to, but I turned it down. Below is my current CV, I am applying to clinical psych, developmental psych, and general psych programs (quantity in decreasing order respectively). Please advise on any changes to be made on my cv as well as to the programs I might want to add/remove from my applications. Below my redacted cv is the list of school I have started applying to this cycle. Thank you!

Education
May 2018 Bachelor of Arts: University X, 3.029 overall GPA, 4.o 60+ credits GPA, 4.0 psychology major GPA, 4.0 Survey Research Minor GPA

I am interested in developmental psychology research and am mostly applying to clinical psych programs because I would like the flexibility in my career as well as a genuine interest in being a therapist in addition to being a professor (or doing it if I need a break from teaching or research later in my career)


Any safety school I should add? Many of the above are highly competitive and I really want to start a program as I am 4 years out of college now. Thanks!
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Your cumulative GPA from undergrad is 3.029? As impressive as your research experience is, you're probably going to get filtered out and not even have your application considered at most programs due to your GPA being that low. My program is one on your list and I know for a fact that they wouldn't look at the rest of your materials based on your GPA alone.

Instead of applying to more than 40 doctoral programs, it would be better to reapply to terminal master's programs to compensate for your low undergrad GPA. Combine a 4.0 master's GPA with all your research experience and you're likely going to get some offers when you reapply in a couple of years.
 
psych.meout said:
Your cumulative GPA from undergrad is 3.029? As impressive as your research experience is, you're probably going to get filtered out and not even have your application considered at most programs due to your GPA being that low. My program is one on your list and I know for a fact that they wouldn't look at the rest of your materials based on your GPA alone.

Instead of applying to more than 40 doctoral programs, it would be better to reapply to terminal master's programs to compensate for your low undergrad GPA. Combine a 4.0 master's GPA with all your research experience and you're likely going to get some offers when you reapply in a couple of years.
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really? That's a bit messed up, considering they all say there is no gpa cutoff on my list. This is certainly disappointing since I cannot afford a master's degree. I really don't want to work RA jobs for the rest of my life for barely minimum wage :(

This was my problem last time around too, but I cant go back to when I was 18 and change things. I wish they would look at my last two years more :/
 
propsych said:
really? That's a bit messed up, considering they all say there is no gpa cutoff on my list. This is certainly disappointing since I cannot afford a master's degree. I really don't want to work RA jobs for the rest of my life for barely minimum wage :(

This was my problem last time around too, but I cant go back to when I was 18 and change things. I wish they would look at my last two years more :/
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Even if there's no hard cutoff, GPA will still be one of the first filters they do to cut down on the sheer volume of applications for more in depth consideration. So, maybe if they can't find suitable applicants with good fit in those forest rounds they might get to you but you'll definitely be at a disadvantage.

Some programs do claim to look at the last two years' GPA or to weight it more heavily but I wouldn't choose programs based on that. It's a poor basis for fit.
 
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Agree with @psych.meout that GPA will be a huge factor here. I'd also make sure that you 1. have an appropriately specific research interest and 2. that it fits well with the PIs you are applying to. I'm very skeptical that anyone could have a defined research interest that is a good match for that many schools.
 
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Dazen said:
Agree with @psych.meout that GPA will be a huge factor here. I'd also make sure that you 1. have an appropriately specific research interest and 2. that it fits well with the PIs you are applying to. I'm very skeptical that anyone could have a defined research interest that is a good match for that many schools.
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I have definitely included some that are more adjacent to my interests just to up the odds of getting in. I would ultimately love to go to the lab with the perfect fit, but my gpa makes it so difficult and considering my age and family planning I feel I have to broaden what I'm willing to do sadly
 
I’m an early career clinician so I’m a bit out of the academia loop but assuming each application fee is around $50, $27 for each GRE score, and $5-$10 for each transcript, you’re looking at a $3,000+ bill alone which doesn’t account for the time to craft many quite different statements of purpose.

You noted that many of these programs are highly competitive which means they will have to cut many very qualified applicants even before interviews. I’d recommend paring down your list to something like half of your original.

You have a lot of prestigious schools in desirable locations. I suspect some of these applications are essentially donations for the vast majority of applicants. I’d encourage you to put yourself in the shoes of some of these admissions committees.

For example, when the Harvard Dev Psych admissions committee gets together, what do you think they are saying about a 3.0 undergrad GPA? Even if they are empathetic to the fact that some students struggle early on, getting traction with them feels like a longshot.

Some programs will also publish stats such as average GPA and GRE. If a program is averaging 3.8s versus 3.5s, that might be an important clue. As much as we focus on ourselves during applications, whether you are successful is very dependent on your competition.

Since it doesn’t appear that you’re geographically restricted, I would really recommend you to consider programs in states that aren’t yet represented on your list. I got my PhD from a commuter state school in the South that I’d never heard of before grad school but there are some really amazing faculty there and I know for a fact that I received better training than certain colleagues whose degrees come from more prestigious locations. Good luck!
 
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Welp, I'm procrastinating on my personal statement so figured I'd drop this and see what you all think.
I'm interested in counseling psychology Ph.D. programs, especially ones with a post. M.A. track. Going to be submitting my application by Dec 1st deadline for the 2022 fall school year.
Due to struggles, I graduated with a lower undergraduate GPA. Took a gap year to do relevant work to get into an M.A. program. Got a lucky break and got into a CACREP accredited master's program.

Education:
  • B.A. Psychology 2.9 GPA (oof), 2019
  • M.S. Counseling 4.0 GPA, 2022
Research Experience
  • 9 months in an undergraduate physiology student research lab.
  • 8 months as a Graduate Research Assistant in collaboration with the local municipal education system and my graduate school
  • 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant presently doing research in a funded research project around my area of interest on peer support services
  • 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant in a faculty research lab regarding QEEG technology and its application in clinical settings
Publications
  • Co-Author of a textbook chapter currently in press
  • Individual research project for school
Presentations
  • Co-Presentator at a national conference regarding research interests (in review)
Clinical Experience
  • Supervised Counselor at a practicum site for 6 months. Managed a caseload of up to 10 clients.
  • Supervised rehab counselor at future Internship site at state Human services department. (Estimated 6-7 months)
  • Supervised therapist at future internship site (alongside the above internship site) (estimated 6-7 months)
    • Should I include future internship sites on my CV?
Work Experience
  • Special education and ABA paraprofessional in the local school district
    • This was the Gap year job
Professional Associations

Interested Counseling Psychology Ph.D. Programs:

University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
Loyola University
University of Wisconsin Madison
Columbia University

Letters of Rec: 2 Solid letters regarding my research experience with me and my skills. 1 from practicum supervisor regarding clinical work.
(2 Potential LoR from my school's program faculty that are alumni from UW-M)

Research interests: Community Psychoeducation approaches, Community Based Participatory Research, Neuropsychology, Multicultural/underrepresented communities

So what do you all think? Anything I can do to increase my chances in the next....23 days?
 
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ThatPsyGuy said:
Welp, I'm procrastinating on my personal statement so figured I'd drop this and see what you all think.
I'm interested in counseling psychology Ph.D. programs, especially ones with a post. M.A. track. Going to be submitting my application by Dec 1st deadline for the 2022 fall school year.
Due to struggles, I graduated with a lower undergraduate GPA. Took a gap year to do relevant work to get into an M.A. program. Got a lucky break and got into a CACREP accredited master's program.

Education:
  • B.A. Psychology 2.9 GPA (oof), 2019
  • M.S. Rehab/Mental Health Counseling 4.0 GPA, 2022
Research Experience
  • 9 months in an undergraduate physiology student research lab.
  • 8 months as a Graduate Research Assistant in collaboration with the local municipal education system and my graduate school
  • 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant presently doing research in a funded research project around my area of interest on peer support services
  • 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant in a faculty research lab regarding QEEG technology and its application in clinical settings
Publications
  • Co-Author of a textbook chapter currently in press
  • Individual research project for school
Presentations
  • Co-Presentator at NCRE conference regarding research interests (in review)
Clinical Experience
  • Supervised Counselor at a practicum site for 6 months. Managed a caseload of up to 10 clients.
  • Supervised rehab counselor at future Internship site at state Human services department. (Estimated 6-7 months)
  • Supervised therapist at future internship site (alongside the above internship site) (estimated 6-7 months)
    • Should I include future internship sites on my CV?
Work Experience
  • Special education and ABA paraprofessional in the local school district
    • This was the Gap year job
Professional Associations: ARCA

Interested Counseling Psychology Ph.D. Programs:

University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
Loyola University
University of Wisconsin Madison
Columbia University

Letters of Rec: 2 Solid letters regarding my research experience with me and my skills. 1 from practicum supervisor regarding clinical work.
(2 Potential LoR from my school's program faculty that are alumni from UW-M)

Research interests: Community Psychoeducation approaches, Community Based Participatory Research, Neuropsychology, Multicultural/underrepresented communities

So what do you all think? Anything I can do to increase my chances in the next....23 days?
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Expand your list of programs. Four is fairly few and it's generally advised to apply to 10-15 programs, especially because these programs are so selective and there are so many variables you can't account for.

Also, the neuropsychology part of your research interests sticks out a bit and doesn't seem to fit with the others. Not saying it can't, but you just need to thread that needle well in your personal statements. E.g., I know someone whose dissertation was about neurocognitive function of low SES racial minorities who are MSM and HIV+.
 
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ThatPsyGuy said:
Welp, I'm procrastinating on my personal statement so figured I'd drop this and see what you all think.
I'm interested in counseling psychology Ph.D. programs, especially ones with a post. M.A. track. Going to be submitting my application by Dec 1st deadline for the 2022 fall school year.
Due to struggles, I graduated with a lower undergraduate GPA. Took a gap year to do relevant work to get into an M.A. program. Got a lucky break and got into a CACREP accredited master's program.

Education:
  • B.A. Psychology 2.9 GPA (oof), 2019
  • M.S. Rehab/Mental Health Counseling 4.0 GPA, 2022
Research Experience
  • 9 months in an undergraduate physiology student research lab.
  • 8 months as a Graduate Research Assistant in collaboration with the local municipal education system and my graduate school
  • 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant presently doing research in a funded research project around my area of interest on peer support services
  • 4 months (Current Ongoing Research) as a Graduate Research Assistant in a faculty research lab regarding QEEG technology and its application in clinical settings
Publications
  • Co-Author of a textbook chapter currently in press
  • Individual research project for school
Presentations
  • Co-Presentator at NCRE conference regarding research interests (in review)
Clinical Experience
  • Supervised Counselor at a practicum site for 6 months. Managed a caseload of up to 10 clients.
  • Supervised rehab counselor at future Internship site at state Human services department. (Estimated 6-7 months)
  • Supervised therapist at future internship site (alongside the above internship site) (estimated 6-7 months)
    • Should I include future internship sites on my CV?
Work Experience
  • Special education and ABA paraprofessional in the local school district
    • This was the Gap year job
Professional Associations: ARCA

Interested Counseling Psychology Ph.D. Programs:

University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign
Loyola University
University of Wisconsin Madison
Columbia University

Letters of Rec: 2 Solid letters regarding my research experience with me and my skills. 1 from practicum supervisor regarding clinical work.
(2 Potential LoR from my school's program faculty that are alumni from UW-M)

Research interests: Community Psychoeducation approaches, Community Based Participatory Research, Neuropsychology, Multicultural/underrepresented communities

So what do you all think? Anything I can do to increase my chances in the next....23 days?
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Your list of schools is very small and made up of very competitive programs. Your uGPA is very low so you’ll be want to cast a wider net. I would expand to clinical-community psych programs based on your interest in CBPR. Your masters degree will help your applications to clinical programs (not just counseling). Your interest in neuropsychology is also a better fit for clinical programs as well. Apply widely to counseling AND clinical programs.
 
propsych said:
I have definitely included some that are more adjacent to my interests just to up the odds of getting in. I would ultimately love to go to the lab with the perfect fit, but my gpa makes it so difficult and considering my age and family planning I feel I have to broaden what I'm willing to do sadly
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This is okay to do. You just have to make the case in your personal statement. What would a marriage between your research interests and a potential advisor’s look like? If the answer to that question isn’t clear to a reader, then it’s not a good fit or your case needs to be better.

Reduce the number of highly competitive clinical programs. Add clinical and counseling programs in less desirable locations (they get fewer applicants).
 
Hoping for some insight. First time applying for a clinical phd.

My stats:
BS Psych
BA Japanese

3.39 GPA
3.60 Psych GPA

None of the schools I am applying for are asking for GREs

Undergrad psych RA - 6 Months
Undergrad psych RA - 7 Months
Clinical neuro RA - 6 Months

Studied abroad in Japan

2 phd psych professor recs
1 masters english professor rec

I’m worried because I am not applying for many places (8 or 9) due only going for programs whose faculty is in my area of interest (multicultural / cross cultural & identity), and I know that my gpa isn’t phenomenal, plus my research experience is kind of small. I did do my undergrad work at one of the top R1 institutes so I hope that might also count for something. Opinions? I think if I can make it to interviews I have a strong chance, but am not confident I will meet the arbitrary cutoffs that stop me from reaching the professors.
 
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alt26 said:
Hoping for some insight. First time applying for a clinical phd.

My stats:
BS Psych
BA Japanese

3.39 GPA
3.60 Psych GPA

None of the schools I am applying for are asking for GREs

Undergrad psych RA - 6 Months
Undergrad psych RA - 7 Months
Clinical neuro RA - 6 Months

Studied abroad in Japan

2 phd psych professor recs
1 masters english professor rec

I’m worried because I am not applying for many places (8 or 9) due only going for programs whose faculty is in my area of interest (multicultural / cross cultural & identity), and I know that my gpa isn’t phenomenal, plus my research experience is kind of small. I did do my undergrad work at one of the top R1 institutes so I hope that might also count for something. Opinions? I think if I can make it to interviews I have a strong chance, but am not confident I will meet the arbitrary cutoffs that stop me from reaching the professors.
Click to expand...

The GPA will definitely hurt at some places. The psych RA experiences are relatively short when compared to some who spend a 1-3 years in one lab. Were you able to get any posters or product from your research experiences?
 
alt26 said:
’m worried because I am not applying for many places (8 or 9) due only going for programs whose faculty is in my area of interest (multicultural / cross cultural & identity), and I know that my gpa isn’t phenomenal, plus my research experience is kind of small.
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All of these are potential barriers with lack of contributions to posters or publications likely being the biggest.

When it comes to preparation for grad studies, one metric I think about is how quickly could a person start working on an original Master’s thesis project, from identifying a novel topic following a thorough lit review, conceptualizing the research design, gathering the data, running the analysis, interpreting/writing up the results and then submitting this project to conferences/journals.

Obviously grad school courses like research methods and stats and mentoring will help fill in gaps but when I see people with less research experience (especially without having assisted on a published project), I wonder how much more prep they will need compared to the people they are competing against, even if their interests fit well with the PIs they are applying to.
 
WisNeuro said:
The GPA will definitely hurt at some places. The psych RA experiences are relatively short when compared to some who spend a 1-3 years in one lab. Were you able to get any posters or product from your research experiences?
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No unfortunately, that was not an option in these labs.

summerbabe said:
All of these are potential barriers with lack of contributions to posters or publications likely being the biggest.

When it comes to preparation for grad studies, one metric I think about is how quickly could a person start working on an original Master’s thesis project, from identifying a novel topic following a thorough lit review, conceptualizing the research design, gathering the data, running the analysis, interpreting/writing up the results and then submitting this project to conferences/journals.

Obviously grad school courses like research methods and stats and mentoring will help fill in gaps but when I see people with less research experience (especially without having assisted on a published project), I wonder how much more prep they will need compared to the people they are competing against, even if their interests fit well with the PIs they are applying to.
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I have taken research methods and stats (though of the two stats I took one was 3.9 and the second was 2.8 so I suspect I will have some explaining should I make it to interviews). And I think my purpose statements fit well with labs, I present my area of interest and how it fits into the professor's lab.
 
summerbabe said:
I’m an early career clinician so I’m a bit out of the academia loop but assuming each application fee is around $50, $27 for each GRE score, and $5-$10 for each transcript, you’re looking at a $3,000+ bill alone which doesn’t account for the time to craft many quite different statements of purpose.

You noted that many of these programs are highly competitive which means they will have to cut many very qualified applicants even before interviews. I’d recommend paring down your list to something like half of your original.

You have a lot of prestigious schools in desirable locations. I suspect some of these applications are essentially donations for the vast majority of applicants. I’d encourage you to put yourself in the shoes of some of these admissions committees.

For example, when the Harvard Dev Psych admissions committee gets together, what do you think they are saying about a 3.0 undergrad GPA? Even if they are empathetic to the fact that some students struggle early on, getting traction with them feels like a longshot.

Some programs will also publish stats such as average GPA and GRE. If a program is averaging 3.8s versus 3.5s, that might be an important clue. As much as we focus on ourselves during applications, whether you are successful is very dependent on your competition.

Since it doesn’t appear that you’re geographically restricted, I would really recommend you to consider programs in states that aren’t yet represented on your list. I got my PhD from a commuter state school in the South that I’d never heard of before grad school but there are some really amazing faculty there and I know for a fact that I received better training than certain colleagues whose degrees come from more prestigious locations. Good luck!
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Hello, thank you so much for the thoughtful advice. I tried to expand my search to multiple locations, but didn't find many research-heavy programs that are fully-funded. If you have any ideas, please let me know!
 
YoungFrancis said:
This is okay to do. You just have to make the case in your personal statement. What would a marriage between your research interests and a potential advisor’s look like? If the answer to that question isn’t clear to a reader, then it’s not a good fit or your case needs to be better.

Reduce the number of highly competitive clinical programs. Add clinical and counseling programs in less desirable locations (they get fewer applicants).
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thanks! can you recommend any fully funded ones? I'd be more interested in a developmental or cognitive psych phd over a counseling program.
 
propsych said:
thanks! can you recommend any fully funded ones? I'd be more interested in a developmental or cognitive psych phd over a counseling program.
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You mentioned that you have a genuine interest in being a professor and therapist and the flexibility allowed by a clinical degree. That means a cognitive or developmental doctoral program doesn't fully align with your interests because they are not licensable degrees. Clinical and counseling degrees are licensable. Why are you less interested in a counseling psych degree? Clinical and counseling curricula are roughly the same and you will find plenty of counseling psych professors with interests in developmental psychology. You mentioned wanting to add *safety* schools (there are none). Counseling programs, on average, get fewer applicants than clinical programs, meaning you'll have a higher chance of acceptance.
 
The Cinnabon said:
Education:
Psych BS with 2 semesters remaining (at a mediocre but inoffensive state school)
GPA: 3.9
Psych GPA: 4.0


Research Experience:
1.5 Years in Public Health research with a publication currently under review (Co-author, only the PI and I worked on this) dealing with Behavioral Healthcare resources for pediatric populations. I focused more on data analysis and drafting up the publications/presentations, I also assisted with study design and implementation. (great experience and rare(er) from what I've been seeing).

A minor stint in those 1.5 years doing Oncology research but it didn't pan out and didn't interest me (I was pre-med for a decent bit so any research was good)

Interviewed for a Trauma Lab position, possible trauma lab position offer for the next two semesters. (crossing my fingers here)

No Posters (my other PI seldom did posters and COVID didn't help, but if all goes well with the review I will be a co-author on the manuscript.)

Co-authored a report on preliminary data findings to the local health department regarding the behavioral healthcare project.

Have "won" 2 grants (PI did all the work)


GRE:
Tbd but going off practice scores Quant is hovering in the higher 160s while Verb is hovering in the lower 160s.

Letters of Rec:
Pretty standard PI and psych professor LORs.

Research Interests:
PTSD and Military Psychology (as a civilian)

Any Other Info:
No geographical restrictions here with building a school list, I would literally move to Barrow, Alaska, or somewhere equally as awful if it was a funded reputable Ph.D. program.
8K USD saved up for app cycle(s). (A gift from my mother back when I was a pre-med for one med app cycle).




I didn't apply this cycle, obviously, and plan on doing 1-2 gap years as a research RA (which is a total pain in the backside to secure). What are some glaring issues with my app and what should I focus on? I figure my no.1 priority right now is not screwing up my decent GPA in the end, not bombing the GRE, and getting PTSD research and at least one poster ASAP but is there anything else I should focus on, or am maybe putting too much emphasis on?
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Alright SDN I'm in need of some advice as well as an ugly update to my WAMC.


The TL;DR here is that I had some pretty extreme life circumstances occur this semester and I, foolishly, prioritized research productivity over going to class (or if I did go to class I wouldn't have been able to be in the PTSD lab I was in due to massive scheduling conflicts). I misread and made some extremely hasty inferences about how much attendance points can effect my grade. Which in my past courses it seemed to be if you did well on exams you, did well in the class which was certainly not the case this semester as my exams were what kept me from getting into really bad territory. The damage here would be going from a 3.9 -> 3.76 (ouch) unless my advisor takes pity on me and lets me take some W's. I didn't fail anything so much as I finally got a C and 2 more mediocre B's. Basically I'm just trying to see if this garbage semester is going to greatly effect my chances of acceptance to programs or if I'm being neurotic over a single bad semester which happens to the best of us.
Basically I know by no means is this is a good thing but I'm trying to see if it's in the range of "whatever you're still above the GPA threshold needed" or "decent app turned subpar pretty quick."


Other, more positive, things that have changed is my aforementioned publication did get accepted and I'm gearing up to present 1-2 posters at 1-2 conferences within the next 6-8 months due to fruitful research on top of writing another pub with a grad student.


All around this was a wake up call for me that you can't actually be in 3 places at once as I also have had to maintain a job as I'm not independently wealthy like most humans.


Edit: Other question I'll ask which could really effect me going forward:
1. How do clinical psych programs view grade replacement? As I have no issue just retaking the classes I got a C and B's in and riding off into the sunset.
 
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The Cinnabon said:
Basically I'm just trying to see if this garbage semester is going to greatly effect my chances of acceptance to programs or if I'm being neurotic over a single bad semester which happens to the best of us.
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Overall, try not to worry since you’ve added to your CV so you’re probably still in a better spot overall.

If you’re applying this cycle and already submitted transcripts before the semester officially completed, you’re fine since those courses would be listed as in progress.

If you’re planning on applying in the future or are still working on apps for this cycle, my guess is that since your overall GPA is still strong and most review processes don’t hyperfocus on grades, it could slide under the radar or not get scrutinized much if noticed.

However, if a program pays more attention to grades, they are more likely to focus on recent semesters so do well in your final semester to show this semester as the anomaly and not an emerging pattern (if applying in the future).

As for grade replacements, I don’t think most reviewers go line for line down a transcript and it’s also usually not super obvious if a class has been retaken. Maybe retake just the C course since a 3.9 can absorb a few Bs since the main goal would be to remove the C, which especially if it’s in an upper level psych class, can stand out negatively. I probably wouldn’t retake all 3 as then your last 2 semesters will essentially look the same which could draw unwanted attention.

Regardless, seems like you’ve learned a valuable lesson which will be super relevant for grad school. Courses are designed for everybody to get A’s so multiple B’s or sometimes a single C could get you placed on academic probation or even outright dismissed depending on the program. So figuring out the balance of placing enough time for courses but not too much since literally everything else you do in grad school is more important will be key. Good luck!
 
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summerbabe said:
Overall, try not to worry since you’ve added to your CV so you’re probably still in a better spot overall.

If you’re applying this cycle and already submitted transcripts before the semester officially completed, you’re fine since those courses would be listed as in progress.

If you’re planning on applying in the future or are still working on apps for this cycle, my guess is that since your overall GPA is still strong and most review processes don’t hyperfocus on grades, it could slide under the radar or not get scrutinized much if noticed.

However, if a program pays more attention to grades, they are more likely to focus on recent semesters so do well in your final semester to show this semester as the anomaly and not an emerging pattern (if applying in the future).

As for grade replacements, I don’t think most reviewers go line for line down a transcript and it’s also usually not super obvious if a class has been retaken. Maybe retake just the C course since a 3.9 can absorb a few Bs since the main goal would be to remove the C, which especially if it’s in an upper level psych class, can stand out negatively. I probably wouldn’t retake all 3 as then your last 2 semesters will essentially look the same which could draw unwanted attention.

Regardless, seems like you’ve learned a valuable lesson which will be super relevant for grad school. Courses are designed for everybody to get A’s so multiple B’s or sometimes a single C could get you placed on academic probation or even outright dismissed depending on the program. So figuring out the balance of placing enough time for courses but not too much since literally everything else you do in grad school is more important will be key. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply and confirming what I basically had assumed in that it, probably, won't be a huge deal so long as this semester is proven to be an anomaly. I will say that deciding to not apply this cycle stings a tiny bit, but I'm looking forward to my, hopefully, fruitful gap years. I will consider taking some psychology courses for fun over my gap years as well (only one a semester) which should give me a tiny boost to ideally make this a non-issue all around.

Admittedly I would hope this would make me a better clinician one day in understanding my clients. There simply didn't feel like enough work hours in a day to fit in all 3 things I needed to do and some things had to take a cut (attendance to lectures). I truly can't fathom how the hell someone with kids and/or who truly lives in destitute poverty could maneuver through these and other hurdles successfully, at least not without sacrificing their mental well-being.
 
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The Cinnabon said:
Thanks for the reply and confirming what I basically had assumed in that it, probably, won't be a huge deal so long as this semester is proven to be an anomaly. I will say that deciding to not apply this cycle stings a tiny bit, but I'm looking forward to my, hopefully, fruitful gap years. I will consider taking some psychology courses for fun over my gap years as well (only one a semester) which should give me a tiny boost to ideally make this a non-issue all around.

Admittedly I would hope this would make me a better clinician one day in understanding my clients. There simply didn't feel like enough work hours in a day to fit in all 3 things I needed to do and some things had to take a cut (attendance to lectures). I truly can't fathom how the hell someone with kids and/or who truly lives in destitute poverty could maneuver through these and other hurdles successfully, at least not without sacrificing their mental well-being.
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My sweet summer child....
 
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The Cinnabon said:
Guilty as charged, I'm nothing if not a naive buffoon.
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The "not enough hours in the day" thing only gets worse throughout grad school, so ability to prioritize and work efficiently become crucial. It is legitimately impossible to attend class, do all of your reading and assignments, fulfill or exceed your research expectations, do excellent clinical work, fulfill your TA/RA responsibilities, go to every departmental talk, sleep, and otherwise support a healthy lifestyle (exercise, eating well, etc). Every grad program knows this, but it doesn't change the standard. You don't need to be perfect in every area. It is possible to excel in classes, research, and having a life simultaneously with careful planning, but you need to be ruthless about how to use your limited time and brainpower.
 
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The Cinnabon said:
Guilty as charged, I'm nothing if not a naive buffoon.
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I don't know if I would go that far.
Dazen said:
The "not enough hours in the day" thing only gets worse throughout grad school, so ability to prioritize and work efficiently become crucial. It is legitimately impossible to attend class, do all of your reading and assignments, fulfill or exceed your research expectations, do excellent clinical work, fulfill your TA/RA responsibilities, go to every departmental talk, sleep, and otherwise support a healthy lifestyle (exercise, eating well, etc). Every grad program knows this, but it doesn't change the standard. You don't need to be perfect in every area. It is possible to excel in classes, research, and having a life simultaneously with careful planning, but you need to be ruthless about how to use your limited time and brainpower.
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Well, that and knowing which things are just worthless and can be mostly ignored vs. what things can be quarter-assed, learning how to effectively skim readings and bull**** you way through classes and department proseminars, and otherwise figuring out how to prioritize different obligations and not give them more effort or time than they actually deserve.
 
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psych.meout said:
I don't know if I would go that far.

Well, that and knowing which things are just worthless and can be mostly ignored vs. what things can be quarter-assed, learning how to effectively skim readings and bull**** you way through classes and department proseminars, and otherwise figuring out how to prioritize different obligations and not give them more effort or time than they actually deserve.
Click to expand...

Speed reading is an incredibly underrated asset here.
 
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Hello! I'd appreciate any insight here if possible. Currently preparing my applications for the Fall 2023 admission cycle. Looking into clinical psychology PsyD and PhD programs.

Education:
BA Psychology, 3.90 overall GPA, 3.93 major GPA
MA Psychology (clinical and cognitive neuro conc.), 3.958 GPA

Test Scores:
General GRE: Verbal 152 (53rd percentile), Quantitative 155 (54th percentile), Writing 5.5 (98th percentile)
*Planning to retake the General GRE in September 2022, taking the Psych GRE in April 2022. Most schools that I am looking at require a min. of 50th percentile on the General GRE

Experience:
~2 academic years in a social/health psych lab doing psychometric coding and literature reviews, data analysis to assess reliability and validity of clinical measurements of stress and anxiety in expectant parents
~1 academic year in a neuroscience lab working on a project re: clinical effects of antidepressant administration during pregnancy and its subsequent behavioral development in rat pups
*currently working now as a clinical research coordinator in a hospital psychiatry dept. where I oversee multiple studies and recruit patients (dx schizophrenia) and controls. I shadow clinical assessments and have been recently starting to do some (clinical and non-clinical) assessments on my own with patients as well. By the time I submit my apps I will have been here for about 1.5 years

Publications:
3 posters (2 in psychology, 1 in Asian American studies)
*possibly working on some papers in my research coordinator job

Research Interests:
Impact of (early) therapeutic intervention on quality of life in people with mental illness
How severe mental illness affects self-perception and one's QoL
Racial/SES impact on the patient's desire to seek and continue with therapeutic treatment of mental illness

References/LORs:
2 Psychiatry MDs
3 PhDs (clinical psychology, cognitive neuroscience, linguistics)

Other:
Teaching assistant during my undergrad in multiple biopsychology courses and in Japanese dept.
Worked in healthcare (medical assistant, materials manager) for 8 years prior to my current job (not psychology related, but still had a lot of patient exposure)

I appreciate any insight/advice. Thanks to whoever reads this and takes the time to respond!
 
n!z!u said:
Currently preparing my applications for the Fall 2023 admission cycle. Looking into clinical psychology PsyD and PhD programs.
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Any particular reason you wouldn't try applying in Fall 2022? You have some posters, research experience, and a MA so as long as you're choosing programs/PIs with good fit, it would be worthwhile to apply earlier given that it's not uncommon to need 2 cycles to get a good offer. And broadly speaking, I think you should be competitive for funded programs and unless there is a really specific reason (e.g., significant geographic restrictions), an unfunded PsyD would not be my top choice if I was in your shoes and having done all of this prep.
n!z!u said:
General GRE: Verbal 152 (53rd percentile), Quantitative 155 (54th percentile), Writing 5.5 (98th percentile)
*Planning to retake the General GRE in September 2022, taking the Psych GRE in April 2022. Most schools that I am looking at require a min. of 50th percentile on the General GRE
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Make sure to review whether your specific programs require the Psych GRE. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't bother with the prep/cost. Also, given that you're above the minimum for the regular GREs and can 'check that box' during an app review, unless you think you can significantly increase your score (or have money to burn), you might be OK sitting on your current scores. You've got a lot of good pieces together so my hunch is that GRE score isn't gonna make or break getting an interview, offer, etc.
n!z!u said:
References/LORs:
2 Psychiatry MDs
3 PhDs (clinical psychology, cognitive neuroscience, linguistics)
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Since you'll have multiple options, have some explicit conversations about what each writer can speak to and how strong of a recommendation they can give and whether their LORs will align with what a clinical psychology program will value, especially for non-clinical psych LORs. Good luck!
 
summerbabe said:
Any particular reason you wouldn't try applying in Fall 2022? You have some posters, research experience, and a MA so as long as you're choosing programs/PIs with good fit, it would be worthwhile to apply earlier given that it's not uncommon to need 2 cycles to get a good offer. And broadly speaking, I think you should be competitive for funded programs and unless there is a really specific reason (e.g., significant geographic restrictions), an unfunded PsyD would not be my top choice if I was in your shoes and having done all of this prep.

Make sure to review whether your specific programs require the Psych GRE. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't bother with the prep/cost. Also, given that you're above the minimum for the regular GREs and can 'check that box' during an app review, unless you think you can significantly increase your score (or have money to burn), you might be OK sitting on your current scores. You've got a lot of good pieces together so my hunch is that GRE score isn't gonna make or break getting an interview, offer, etc.

Since you'll have multiple options, have some explicit conversations about what each writer can speak to and how strong of a recommendation they can give and whether their LORs will align with what a clinical psychology program will value, especially for non-clinical psych LORs. Good luck!
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Thank you so much for your response! To answer your questions/advice:

I may have not been clear in my wording, but I am looking to apply during the Fall of 2022, to be accepted into a program for Fall 2023. Due to some family/personal matters (Covid really threw a wrench in my plans, as I'm sure for many people haha) and also wanting to bolster my application as much as possible while also making some money for the time being, I think applying later this year would be alright.

Most of the programs I am looking at (for PsyD at least) are looking for the psych GRE, and I was also thinking that if I can score well on that exam it may put less emphasis on my general GRE scores. Going off that point, I'm pretty insecure about my current scores, I know they're not necessarily bad but I feel like they are the biggest dent in my applications. Even if it's just a security blanket for me, I'm thinking about taking them again for my own sanity.

As for the LORs, I was thinking of doing that, so thank you!

I really appreciate the time you took to answer in such detail. Thanks again!
 
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n!z!u said:
Thank you so much for your response! To answer your questions/advice:

I may have not been clear in my wording, but I am looking to apply during the Fall of 2022, to be accepted into a program for Fall 2023. Due to some family/personal matters (Covid really threw a wrench in my plans, as I'm sure for many people haha) and also wanting to bolster my application as much as possible while also making some money for the time being, I think applying later this year would be alright.

Most of the programs I am looking at (for PsyD at least) are looking for the psych GRE, and I was also thinking that if I can score well on that exam it may put less emphasis on my general GRE scores. Going off that point, I'm pretty insecure about my current scores, I know they're not necessarily bad but I feel like they are the biggest dent in my applications. Even if it's just a security blanket for me, I'm thinking about taking them again for my own sanity.

As for the LORs, I was thinking of doing that, so thank you!

I really appreciate the time you took to answer in such detail. Thanks again!
Click to expand...
To add to what @summerbabe said, since you have multiple LOR options, I would 1. make sure they are comfortable writing you a strong letter and 2. try to pick the strong letters that have the greatest overall breadth of content. Having people be able to speak to different skills and experiences that create a complex and complete picture of you will help more than having multiple letters speak to the same strengths.

I would also recommend that you look at funded PsyDs and balanced PhDs, as your background looks generally competitive. Smaller cohort programs generally place less focus on GRE scores (or don't even require them) once you've met the score requirement.
 
n!z!u said:
Most of the programs I am looking at (for PsyD at least) are looking for the psych GRE, and I was also thinking that if I can score well on that exam it may put less emphasis on my general GRE scores. Going off that point, I'm pretty insecure about my current scores, I know they're not necessarily bad but I feel like they are the biggest dent in my applications. Even if it's just a security blanket for me, I'm thinking about taking them again for my own sanity.
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That makes sense. I've only ever applied to PhDs across 2 cycles and zero programs that I looked at or ultimately applied to asked for the Psych GRE. I'm guessing PsyD programs are more likely to get applicants who haven't put in additional work like getting involved in research and doing an MA so they are more likely to ask for this.

My hunch is that for funded PhDs, as long as your scores aren't super low,.you're fine and even a good Psych GRE probably won't do much for you (unless they specifically require it). There are plenty of people in psych PhDs who aren't phenomenal standardized test takers.

If you do go the unfunded PsyD route, make sure to crunch the financials. IMO this degree is absolutely not worth six figures of debt.
 
I agree with what has already been said. I think you would be fairly competitive, if you really focus on getting on a pub (even if under review) by the time of application. Were your posters submitted to national conferences? Couldn't hurt to have one more poster at least submitted before application. Also, I know nothing about labs in your interest area, but another question to ask would be: am I a competitive applicant in this subfield with labs that are a good research match? For instance, my subfield is weirdly crazy and has quite a high bar compared to others.

I wouldn't apply to non-funded PsyDs if I were you - you have the right preparation. I would focus on Clinical and Counseling Psych PhDs and if you are really interested in a PsyD, then applying to the funded PsyDs.
 
Dazen said:
To add to what @summerbabe said, since you have multiple LOR options, I would 1. make sure they are comfortable writing you a strong letter and 2. try to pick the strong letters that have the greatest overall breadth of content. Having people be able to speak to different skills and experiences that create a complex and complete picture of you will help more than having multiple letters speak to the same strengths.

I would also recommend that you look at funded PsyDs and balanced PhDs, as your background looks generally competitive. Smaller cohort programs generally place less focus on GRE scores (or don't even require them) once you've met the score requirement.
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Thank you for the input! I will definitely make sure to do that. I have different academic/working relationships with all of my LOR options so I will do my best to ensure that my letters showcase a wide range of my skillset.

I am still in the process of looking at programs, so I will take a look at some more competitive and funded ones. Thanks for the info re: GRE scores in this manner. It just puts me off a little when I see the score requirements and then see how much higher the mean/median scores are of the entering cohorts.
summerbabe said:
That makes sense. I've only ever applied to PhDs across 2 cycles and zero programs that I looked at or ultimately applied to asked for the Psych GRE. I'm guessing PsyD programs are more likely to get applicants who haven't put in additional work like getting involved in research and doing an MA so they are more likely to ask for this.

My hunch is that for funded PhDs, as long as your scores aren't super low,.you're fine and even a good Psych GRE probably won't do much for you (unless they specifically require it). There are plenty of people in psych PhDs who aren't phenomenal standardized test takers.

If you do go the unfunded PsyD route, make sure to crunch the financials. IMO this degree is absolutely not worth six figures of debt.
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It seems that in my research there is less competition among most of the PsyD programs. Most don't even mention needing prior experience/recommending a master's. I am more interested in a practice-based career than academia and research, and I know I can still accomplish this with a PhD, but with my career goals in mind would it not be as appropriate to consider (funded) PsyD programs too? I'm also hearing a lot about PhD applicant review boards not wanting to see a personal statement/statement of purpose mention non-academic/research career interests.
PsycIntern2021 said:
I agree with what has already been said. I think you would be fairly competitive, if you really focus on getting on a pub (even if under review) by the time of application. Were your posters submitted to national conferences? Couldn't hurt to have one more poster at least submitted before application. Also, I know nothing about labs in your interest area, but another question to ask would be: am I a competitive applicant in this subfield with labs that are a good research match? For instance, my subfield is weirdly crazy and has quite a high bar compared to others.

I wouldn't apply to non-funded PsyDs if I were you - you have the right preparation. I would focus on Clinical and Counseling Psych PhDs and if you are really interested in a PsyD, then applying to the funded PsyDs.
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Thank you! And yes, this is hopefully the plan. One of the studies I am coordinating right now will likely be in the writing stage at the start of the summer, so I'm a tiny bit apprehensive of it being under review by the time I send in my applications in December. My posters were submitted to the 2018 APA Annual Convention, the 2019 Society of Behavioral Medicine Annual Meeting, and another one at a research symposium at my undergraduate institution in 2019.
 
n!z!u said:
It seems that in my research there is less competition among most of the PsyD programs. Most don't even mention needing prior experience/recommending a master's.
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Yes, there's less competition, because these programs are less or not at all selective about who they admit. It should be a huge red flag to you if they don't require prior experience while funded programs require extensive experience.
n!z!u said:
I am more interested in a practice-based career than academia and research, and I know I can still accomplish this with a PhD, but with my career goals in mind would it not be as appropriate to consider (funded) PsyD programs too?
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If you look at their websites and handbooks, the few funded PsyD programs that exist have largely similar foci to scientist practitioner PhD programs.
n!z!u said:
I'm also hearing a lot about PhD applicant review boards not wanting to see a personal statement/statement of purpose mention non-academic/research career interests.
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It's not that you can't or shouldn't mention your clinical interests, but rather that you shouldn't talk about them to the neglect of your research experience, goals, and aspirations, nor should you make it seem that you aren't really interested in research at all and are just applying to PhD programs because of the funding or clinical opportunities. A good way to accomplish this is by incorporating both, synthesizing your research and clinical experience into a coherent training and career program.
 
psych.meout said:
Yes, there's less competition, because these programs are less or not at all selective about who they admit. It should be a huge red flag to you if they don't require prior experience while funded programs require extensive experience.

If you look at their websites and handbooks, the few funded PsyD programs that exist have largely similar foci to scientist practitioner PhD programs.

It's not that you can't or shouldn't mention your clinical interests, but rather that you shouldn't talk about them to the neglect of your research experience, goals, and aspirations, nor should you make it seem that you aren't really interested in research at all and are just applying to PhD programs because of the funding or clinical opportunities. A good way to accomplish this is by incorporating both, synthesizing your research and clinical experience into a coherent training and career program.
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Noted on all of this. Thank you! I'm still weeding out the programs that I don't think would be a good fit for me (both PsyD and PhD).

I am planning on emphasizing my interest in the interconnectedness between research and clinical practice in my SoP, so this is a good thing to hear. Thanks again!
 
Hi all, first of all, no need to bash PsyD programs. I know the down falls to them. Just wanting input about my chances :).

Undergrad at Gonzaga University and University of Nevada, Reno.
GPA: 3.85
Psych and Spanish double major

No GRE

RA for 6 months at UNR in clinical lab. In the lab, I was awarded a grant and conducted my own study on IPV and latinas.

Been working for a crisis line for 6 months and plan to until grad school.

President of mental health club in high school.

3 pretty solid letters of rec. one academic.

Well put together Statement of Purpose

I applied early to Alliant San Fran, Wright institute, and PGSP Stanford. All PsyD.

I want to stay in the Bay Area. Haven’t heard from schools yet as I know it’s too early.

Would love the input. Thanks!
 
I think you will have a hard time with PGSP but probably competitive for Alliant or Wright.
 
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elokobi3 said:
Yup certainly pricey. Thanks
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No, he's saying that they take anyone with a pulse who can pay, whether that's out of pocket or with student loans.

As far as staying in the Bay Area, it's important to understand that moving is the norm for doctoral programs and most people move more than once, including grad school, internship, and post doc. Geographic inflexibility limits all your options, not just grad school. It could lead to you not matching for internship and permanently stunting your career. The VA, AMCs, and other employers will just straight up not consider you at all without an accredited internship or at best your application goes to the bottom of the pile after all the people who did complete an accredited internship.
 
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psych.meout said:
No, he's saying that they take anyone with a pulse who can pay, whether that's out of pocket or with student loans.

As far as staying in the Bay Area, it's important to understand that moving is the norm for doctoral programs and most people move more than once, including grad school, internship, and post doc. Geographic inflexibility limits all your options, not just grad school. It could lead to you not matching for internship and permanently stunting your career. The VA, AMCs, and other employers will just straight up not consider you at all without an accredited internship or at best your application goes to the bottom of the pile after all the people who did complete an accredited internship.
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Right, thanks for the info. All things I’m looking at. Alliant APA internship placement hovers between 70-80%. And licensure rate of 74% I think. So that seems solid to me. A few Alliant clinical grads that I know also have stellar jobs at hospitals and in private practice. I would rather limit my options and have a high quality of life outside of school (climbing in Yosemite, skiing in Tahoe) than be pressed to get into the best school. Again thanks for the input though.
 
elokobi3 said:
Right, thanks for the info. All things I’m looking at. Alliant APA internship placement hovers between 70-80%. And licensure rate of 74% I think. So that seems solid to me.
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That's not "solid" at all. Good programs have nearly 100% match rate. E.g., Mine has had a 100% match rate every year for at least as long as they've been keeping track of the statistics.

70-80% is terrible, especially when their cohorts are as large as the entire student body of funded programs. It means that 2 to 3 out of every ten students can't match to an accredited internship and suffer from the effects for the rest of their careers. How do you know that you will be one of the lucky ones and not have difficulty matching? One of the primary drivers of not matching for internship is geographic inflexibility, which can hurt otherwise competitive applicants. Combine that with attending a diploma mill like any Alliant program and you're setting yourself up to not match.

The licensure rate is an even larger red flag. These kinds of programs are geared towards licensure and clinical practice. They lack the research experience and other training required for other kinds of careers, e.g., academia, industry. So, while a clinical science program could have an equivalent licensure rate, it has a different meaning than one of these PsyD diploma mills. Unlicensed grads of clinical science programs weren't having difficulty getting licensed, but rather made a conscious decision to not get licensed because they don't really need it for their careers, which are likely mostly focused on doing research in some setting and context.

Conversely, those grads from diploma mills like Alliant are trying to get licensed because that's pretty much their only option, but they're having difficulty passing the EPPP, meeting state licensure requirements, etc. Thus, the 74% licensure rate means you have a 1 in 4 chance of being unable to get licensed. I.e., you'd be saddled with a mountain of debt, but would be unable to get licensed to qualify for jobs and increase your earnings to even begin chipping away at it.

elokobi3 said:
A few Alliant clinical grads that I know also have stellar jobs at hospitals and in private practice.
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Sure, but you need to look at modal outcomes and statistics, not just the anecdotes that affirm your decision to attend that program and those like it. What about the 26% of their graduates who can't get licensed? Have you spoken to any of them? What about those who are licensed but didn't complete an accredited internship, what are their careers like?

elokobi3 said:
I would rather limit my options and have a high quality of life outside of school (climbing in Yosemite, skiing in Tahoe) than be pressed to get into the best school. Again thanks for the input though.
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This is begging the question and implying a false choice between quality of life and quality of training. You're assuming that students who were "pressed to get into the best school" don't have a high quality of life, which isn't necessarily the case. In fact, the opposite makes much more sense.

Attending an unfunded program means that, unless you are independently wealthy to self-fund all expenses, you're likely taking on debt to pay for tuition and fees, cost of living, and other expenses. That means that any of these "quality of life" activities outside of school are almost assuredly going to funded by even more debt unless you have someone else paying them for you.

Compare this with funded programs where you don't pay for school or health insurance and are even receiving a stipend to live off of. You likely aren't accruing debt (or at least only minimal debt), so you can much more easily afford to do these quality of life activities outside of school. Up until COVID hit, I traveled multiple times per year, including going to Europe. Moreover, attending a funded program comes with other benefits to increase your quality of life. For example, I've attended research conferences around the country and all my expenses were paid for by my program because I was presenting a poster or talk there. I was able to do tons of fun stuff in each location during down time between conference activities. I was even going to Europe for a conference before COVID cancelled it.
 
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psych.meout said:
That's not "solid" at all. Good programs have nearly 100% match rate. E.g., Mine has had a 100% match rate every year for at least as long as they've been keeping track of the statistics.

70-80% is terrible, especially when their cohorts are as large as the entire student body of funded programs. It means that 2 to 3 out of every ten students can't match to an accredited internship and suffer from the effects for the rest of their careers. How do you know that you will be one of the lucky ones and not have difficulty matching? One of the primary drivers of not matching for internship is geographic inflexibility, which can hurt otherwise competitive applicants. Combine that with attending a diploma mill like any Alliant program and you're setting yourself up to not match.

The licensure rate is an even larger red flag. These kinds of programs are geared towards licensure and clinical practice. They lack the research experience and other training required for other kinds of careers, e.g., academia, industry. So, while a clinical science program could have an equivalent licensure rate, it has a different meaning than one of these PsyD diploma mills. Unlicensed grads of clinical science programs weren't having difficulty getting licensed, but rather made a conscious decision to not get licensed because they don't really need it for their careers, which are likely mostly focused on doing research in some setting and context.

Conversely, those grads from diploma mills like Alliant are trying to get licensed because that's pretty much their only option, but they're having difficulty passing the EPPP, meeting state licensure requirements, etc. Thus, the 74% licensure rate means you have a 1 in 4 chance of being unable to get licensed. I.e., you'd be saddled with a mountain of debt, but would be unable to get licensed to qualify for jobs and increase your earnings to even begin chipping away at it.


Sure, but you need to look at modal outcomes and statistics, not just the anecdotes that affirm your decision to attend that program and those like it. What about the 26% of their graduates who can't get licensed? Have you spoken to any of them? What about those who are licensed but didn't complete an accredited internship, what are their careers like?


This is begging the question and implying a false choice between quality of life and quality of training. You're assuming that students who were "pressed to get into the best school" don't have a high quality of life, which isn't necessarily the case. In fact, the opposite makes much more sense.

Attending an unfunded program means that, unless you are independently wealthy to self-fund all expenses, you're likely taking on debt to pay for tuition and fees, cost of living, and other expenses. That means that any of these "quality of life" activities outside of school are almost assuredly going to funded by even more debt unless you have someone else paying them for you.

Compare this with funded programs where you don't pay for school or health insurance and are even receiving a stipend to live off of. You likely aren't accruing debt (or at least only minimal debt), so you can much more easily afford to do these quality of life activities outside of school. Up until COVID hit, I traveled multiple times per year, including going to Europe. Moreover, attending a funded program comes with other benefits to increase your quality of life. For example, I've attended research conferences around the country and all my expenses were paid for by my program because I was presenting a poster or talk there. I was able to do tons of fun stuff in each location during down time between conference activities. I was even going to Europe for a conference before COVID cancelled it.
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Wow you have a lot to say. Thanks for caring so much. Congrats on being in a funded program.
 
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