WAMC: What Are My Chances

[koharu]

Would I be wasting my time getting a second master’s before applying to PhD clinical psych programs? I graduate in May with an MSW and my GPA is currently 3.75. My undergrad GPA was 3.09 and GRE scores are 150 V, 148 Q, and 4 Writing. I have ZERO research experience and not many letters of recommendation. (My MSW degree is online and while its a rigorous and top ranked program, I’m unable to build relationships with my teachers and I didn’t build relationships during undergrad either.)

Should I get a master’s with a thesis? Even if I take the GRE again and get excellent scores, would I have a good chance at getting into a PhD? Any other advice/tips?

Don't know if it helps to note that I did horrible the first couple of years of undergrad but started improving after year 2/3 - my GPA was 3.55 - 3.96 during my last two years of undergrad and my psych GPA was 3.79.

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[psych.meout]

Would I be wasting my time getting a second master’s before applying to PhD clinical psych programs? I graduate in May with an MSW and my GPA is currently 3.75. My undergrad GPA was 3.09 and GRE scores are 150 V, 148 Q, and 4 Writing. I have ZERO research experience and not many letters of recommendation. (My MSW degree is online and while its a rigorous and top ranked program, I’m unable to build relationships with my teachers and I didn’t build relationships during undergrad either.)

Should I get a master’s with a thesis? Even if I take the GRE again and get excellent scores, would I have a good chance at getting into a PhD? Any other advice/tips?

Don't know if it helps to note that I did horrible the first couple of years of undergrad but started improving after year 2/3 - my GPA was 3.55 - 3.96 during my last two years of undergrad and my psych GPA was 3.79.

Without any research experience, there's basically no chance of getting into clinical psych PhD programs. That's definitely an area where you will need to make progress, however you do it, e.g., an RA position, another MA/MS, etc.

As far as GPAs and GREs go, often high GRE scores can compensate for less competitive GPAs, as can grad GPAs. The problem is that I'm not sure that online degrees will really help you. It might even hurt you at some programs.

Why not continue with the MSW and get licensed? Why is it that you want to go for a PhD in clinical psych? What is it that you want to do and why is a clinical psych PhD key to doing that?

 

[koharu]

Without any research experience, there's basically no chance of getting into clinical psych PhD programs. That's definitely an area where you will need to make progress, however you do it, e.g., an RA position, another MA/MS, etc.

As far as GPAs and GREs go, often high GRE scores can compensate for less competitive GPAs, as can grad GPAs. The problem is that I'm not sure that online degrees will really help you. It might even hurt you at some programs.

Why not continue with the MSW and get licensed? Why is it that you want to go for a PhD in clinical psych? What is it that you want to do and why is a clinical psych PhD key to doing that?

I considered doing both - waiting a couple of years to apply to phd programs and spending those years gaining more work experience/LCSW and paying off debt and student loans. My ultimate goal would be to return to get a phd, though.

I want to get a PhD in clinical psychology to further research pathology and mental health ( my primary areas of interest are children/families and at-risk youth). Career wise, I want to work in a university setting and focus on doing research and teaching. I feel that having a PhD would be helpful because I would be seen as an expert within the field which would allow me to also offer consulting services to agencies/organizations. Getting the highest degree within psychology is something really valuable to me as I'm really passionate about the field.

I just worry that too many years out of school may hurt me when applying or that having multiple Master degrees may make me overqualified for PhD admission or give the impression of a lack of direction or indecisiveness - though I believe the fields are closely related. (My transcript doesn't indicate my MSW is online and my school is brick-and-mortar so programs won't know unless I disclose this information).

 

[wtfook]

I considered doing both - waiting a couple of years to apply to phd programs and spending those years gaining more work experience/LCSW and paying off debt and student loans. My ultimate goal would be to return to get a phd, though.

I want to get a PhD in clinical psychology to further research pathology and mental health ( my primary areas of interest are children/families and at-risk youth). Career wise, I want to work in a university setting and focus on doing research and teaching. I feel that having a PhD would be helpful because I would be seen as an expert within the field which would allow me to also offer consulting services to agencies/organizations. Getting the highest degree within psychology is something really valuable to me as I'm really passionate about the field.

I just worry that too many years out of school may hurt me when applying or that having multiple Master degrees may make me overqualified for PhD admission or give the impression of a lack of direction or indecisiveness - though I believe the fields are closely related. (My transcript doesn't indicate my MSW is online and my school is brick-and-mortar so programs won't know unless I disclose this information).

I think you would need to focus your interests a lot more before doing a PhD. There are several ways you can research "families and at risk youth." For example, are you interested in youth in the juvenile justice system? Foster youth? Family therapy? School based interventions? And within THOSE factors are you interested in looking at interventions, preventative care, depression, oppositional disorders, ADHD, anxiety, suicidal behavior, trauma, etc... There are people all over the country in both clinical and counseling programs doing these things so just saying "children/families and at risk youth" is too broad.

From there, you can definitely get your LCSW, work off loans, and join a research lab. OR you can work at a research institution doing therapy and see if you can't join a team at your work place. I absolutely know people who have done that, worked enough hours to get licensure WHILE doing research to focus their interests, and then later started a fully funded PhD Program. Honestly, I wouldn't focus so much on the clinical vs. counseling part so much as who is doing work in the area that you are interested in. There are prof in clinical and counseling programs working within those general populations and in a range of focuses.

I totally understand the age concern. If it helps, I am turning 30 this year and I am only finishing up my 1st year of my doctoral program. Honestly, I have had personally weird questions about my age from interviews at clinical programs but never from counseling programs. Others may have different experiences, and I'm sure there are counseling programs that will throw the age card at you, especially if you are a woman (like I am). Age should not matter based on skill alone. You have more experience and maturity! It's only a problem if the program is worried about you taking time off to start a family, and if they are that type of program, clinical or counseling you don't want to be there.

 

[singasongofjoy]

I totally understand the age concern. If it helps, I am turning 30 this year and I am only finishing up my 1st year of my doctoral program. Honestly, I have had personally weird questions about my age from interviews at clinical programs but never from counseling programs. Others may have different experiences, and I'm sure there are counseling programs that will throw the age card at you, especially if you are a woman (like I am). Age should not matter based on skill alone. You have more experience and maturity! It's only a problem if the program is worried about you taking time off to start a family, and if they are that type of program, clinical or counseling you don't want to be there.

I'm pretty sure that's one of those questions they are not supposed to ask about, so it is interesting that you did get asked about your age. I was 28 when interviewing and never got any questions about my age, and it never crossed my mind that I might be (but I wouldn't consider 28 and 30 to be "old," so...). What kind of questions did you get and were they from faculty or students?

 

[artsyann]

I got asked about my age, my husband’s profession and how many kids I have. It made me very uncomfortable.

 

[wtfook]

I'm pretty sure that's one of those questions they are not supposed to ask about, so it is interesting that you did get asked about your age. I was 28 when interviewing and never got any questions about my age, and it never crossed my mind that I might be (but I wouldn't consider 28 and 30 to be "old," so...). What kind of questions did you get and were they from faculty or students?

Yeah unfortunately even if they're not supposed to ask you that you may get some people who just cannot keep their biases in. I was 28 when I was interviewing as well and it was jarring for me too, since I didn't really expect it. But it was my first interview of the cycle so after that I paid close attention to whether a program seemed supportive of women (of any age) who may take an indirect path. I got only one comment from the faculty member I was interviewing to work with. He said something along the lines of, "You know you're older than the students we typically take." And he said something after that that kind of alluded to my plans for the future within my personal life without directly saying it. So I was a little confused and wasn't sure how to answer, and only later did I realize he was asking about my personal life.

 

[wtfook]

I got asked about my age, my husband’s profession and how many kids I have. It made me very uncomfortable.

Yeah I bet. That's totally unprofessional.

 

[Justanothergrad]

I got asked about my age, my husband’s profession and how many kids I have. It made me very uncomfortable.

Unethical for sure. If they cross those boundaries during interview, it is safe to assume that behavior predicts future behavior.

Everything is data.

 

[Passion4Kids]

Hi everyone, I am a junior undergraduate student who wants to go to a clinical phd program after college with a child emphasis. I am a Child, Youth and Family Studies major with a minor is psych and sociology. I recently changed my major just last year because I decided med school wasn’t the right route for me. Bc of this all my science classes were terrible I got C’s or C+s in all my hard sciences which brought my gpa down. Currently my cumultive gpa is close to a 3.0 This semester my new classes are amazing and I love them! I’m hoping to get all A’s this semester to bring my gpa up to a 3.4-3.5 range. I still want to be able to graduate on time (May 2018). I will be taking more psych classes as well. I have been doing a lot of research on grad schools and my dream school is Northwestern University because one of their labs I fell in love with. I know they only accept 4-8 people though which scares me. I will also be taking the GRE this summer so I have started studying for that already. I have already been involved with research at the university I started doing research in August of 2017. And I am still working in that lab as an RA. I am also going to try and get some clinical experience this summer by working at a mental health facility and try to find a research lab this summer and take more psych classes as well. I also did work at a summer camp last summer and worked with children and adults with disabilities.

These are the few schools that I am looking at:

Univ of Denver
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Georgia
Univ of Alabama Birmingham
Univ of Massachusetts
Northwestern
Rutgers
UC SAN DIEGO
UCLA

Does anyone know if I would be a competitive applicant? Also are there any less competitive clinical psych programs that I should apply to? I have to apply tona variety of them! Please let me know I need someone’s help!! I’m really scared of the GRE bc I hate standardized tests but I’ll see how it goes this summer! Any thoughts???

 

[psych.meout]

Hi everyone, I am a junior undergraduate student who wants to go to a clinical phd program after college with a child emphasis. I am a Child, Youth and Family Studies major with a minor is psych and sociology. I recently changed my major just last year because I decided med school wasn’t the right route for me. Bc of this all my science classes were terrible I got C’s or C+s in all my hard sciences which brought my gpa down. Currently my cumultive gpa is close to a 3.0 This semester my new classes are amazing and I love them! I’m hoping to get all A’s this semester to bring my gpa up to a 3.4-3.5 range. I still want to be able to graduate on time (May 2018). I will be taking more psych classes as well. I have been doing a lot of research on grad schools and my dream school is Northwestern University because one of their labs I fell in love with. I know they only accept 4-8 people though which scares me. I will also be taking the GRE this summer so I have started studying for that already. I have already been involved with research at the university I started doing research in August of 2017. And I am still working in that lab as an RA. I am also going to try and get some clinical experience this summer by working at a mental health facility and try to find a research lab this summer and take more psych classes as well. I also did work at a summer camp last summer and worked with children and adults with disabilities.

These are the few schools that I am looking at:

Univ of Denver
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Georgia
Univ of Alabama Birmingham
Univ of Massachusetts
Northwestern
Rutgers
UC SAN DIEGO
UCLA

Does anyone know if I would be a competitive applicant? Also are there any less competitive clinical psych programs that I should apply to? I have to apply tona variety of them! Please let me know I need someone’s help!! I’m really scared of the GRE bc I hate standardized tests but I’ll see how it goes this summer! Any thoughts???

This belongs in the WAMC thread.

 

[Passion4Kids]

Hi everyone, I am a junior undergraduate student who wants to go to a clinical phd program after college with a child emphasis. I am a Child, Youth and Family Studies major with a minor in psych and sociology. I recently changed my major just last year because I decided med school wasn’t the right route for me. Bc of this all my science classes were terrible I got C’s or C+s in all my hard sciences which brought my gpa down. Currently my cumulative gpa is close to a 3.0 This semester my new classes are amazing and I love them! I’m hoping to get all A’s this semester to bring my gpa up to a 3.4-3.5 range. I still want to be able to graduate on time (May 2019). I will be taking more psych classes as well. I have been doing a lot of research on grad schools and my dream school is Northwestern University because one of their labs I fell in love with. I know they only accept 4-8 people though which scares me. I will also be taking the GRE this summer so I have started studying for that already. I have already been involved with research at the university I started doing research in August of 2017. And I am still working in that lab as an RA. I am also going to try and get some clinical experience this summer by working at a mental health facility and try to find a research lab this summer and take more psych classes as well. I also did work at a summer camp last summer and worked with children and adults with disabilities. Also another thing is it required for me to take the Psych GRE? I looked at the schools I'm looking at and a lot of them only require the general GRE. Also the psych GRE is only available for a couple times during the year and not in the fall so I was planning on just taking the general one.

These are the few schools that I am looking at:

Univ of Denver
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Georgia
Univ of Alabama Birmingham
Univ of Massachusetts
Northwestern
Rutgers
UC SAN DIEGO
UCLA

Does anyone know if I would be a competitive applicant? Also are there any less competitive clinical psych programs that I should apply to? I have to apply to a variety of them! Please let me know I need someone’s help!! I’m really scared of the GRE bc I hate standardized tests but I’ll see how it goes this summer! Any thoughts???

 

[deleted656923]

Does anyone know if I would be a competitive applicant? Also are there any less competitive clinical psych programs that I should apply to? I have to apply tona variety of them! Please let me know I need someone’s help!! I’m really scared of the GRE bc I hate standardized tests but I’ll see how it goes this summer! Any thoughts???

First of all, I'm glad to see you've found a career area that fits your interests better. And you may be surprised that many Clinical Psychology Ph.D students initially pursued medical school before finding their niche.

To address your question, it's great to see you're already actively engaged in research - hopefully, you're working in a child-focused psychology research lab, since this seems to be your specific research interest. It's also good to see you've already been looking into programs and labs you'd like to apply for in the coming year.

Your performance in your hard sciences courses, though, may raise some red flags among some admissions committees, especially for the more science-heavy programs like UCLA, Univ of Pitt, Univ of Alabama Birmingham (UAB), and Northwestern. Your current overall GPA also is a bit low compared to the typical applicants accepted at all the programs you listed, so there will be a greater importance for you to score well on your GRE.

 

[Indiana_Jane]

Hi everyone, I am a junior undergraduate student who wants to go to a clinical phd program after college with a child emphasis. I am a Child, Youth and Family Studies major with a minor in psych and sociology. I recently changed my major just last year because I decided med school wasn’t the right route for me. Bc of this all my science classes were terrible I got C’s or C+s in all my hard sciences which brought my gpa down. Currently my cumulative gpa is close to a 3.0 This semester my new classes are amazing and I love them! I’m hoping to get all A’s this semester to bring my gpa up to a 3.4-3.5 range. I still want to be able to graduate on time (May 2019). I will be taking more psych classes as well. I have been doing a lot of research on grad schools and my dream school is Northwestern University because one of their labs I fell in love with. I know they only accept 4-8 people though which scares me. I will also be taking the GRE this summer so I have started studying for that already. I have already been involved with research at the university I started doing research in August of 2017. And I am still working in that lab as an RA. I am also going to try and get some clinical experience this summer by working at a mental health facility and try to find a research lab this summer and take more psych classes as well. I also did work at a summer camp last summer and worked with children and adults with disabilities. Also another thing is it required for me to take the Psych GRE? I looked at the schools I'm looking at and a lot of them only require the general GRE. Also the psych GRE is only available for a couple times during the year and not in the fall so I was planning on just taking the general one.

These are the few schools that I am looking at:

Univ of Denver
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Georgia
Univ of Alabama Birmingham
Univ of Massachusetts
Northwestern
Rutgers
UC SAN DIEGO
UCLA

Does anyone know if I would be a competitive applicant? Also are there any less competitive clinical psych programs that I should apply to? I have to apply to a variety of them! Please let me know I need someone’s help!! I’m really scared of the GRE bc I hate standardized tests but I’ll see how it goes this summer! Any thoughts???

Hello! You want to do the following to maximize your chances: solid research experience (I.e., become involved and contribute via posters and/or publications), get your GPA up as much as possible, do really well on the GRE, and identify mentors that align with your research interests.

Fit with a mentor is exceptionally important - ideally, you will develop a list of programs based on research match and area of interest (which is sounds like you still need to develop via lab involvement). Of note, most of the schools on your list are VERY competitive. Applying broadly and to 10 or so schools will also increase your chances.

Right now, I would say you need to focus on your research experience and the GRE (in addition to doing well in classes). You’ll need to bring to develop your area of interest & if standardized tests and the GRE are scary, I would allow extra time to conquer that hurdle.




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[AcronymAllergy]

Hi everyone, I am a junior undergraduate student who wants to go to a clinical phd program after college with a child emphasis. I am a Child, Youth and Family Studies major with a minor in psych and sociology. I recently changed my major just last year because I decided med school wasn’t the right route for me. Bc of this all my science classes were terrible I got C’s or C+s in all my hard sciences which brought my gpa down. Currently my cumulative gpa is close to a 3.0 This semester my new classes are amazing and I love them! I’m hoping to get all A’s this semester to bring my gpa up to a 3.4-3.5 range. I still want to be able to graduate on time (May 2019). I will be taking more psych classes as well. I have been doing a lot of research on grad schools and my dream school is Northwestern University because one of their labs I fell in love with. I know they only accept 4-8 people though which scares me. I will also be taking the GRE this summer so I have started studying for that already. I have already been involved with research at the university I started doing research in August of 2017. And I am still working in that lab as an RA. I am also going to try and get some clinical experience this summer by working at a mental health facility and try to find a research lab this summer and take more psych classes as well. I also did work at a summer camp last summer and worked with children and adults with disabilities. Also another thing is it required for me to take the Psych GRE? I looked at the schools I'm looking at and a lot of them only require the general GRE. Also the psych GRE is only available for a couple times during the year and not in the fall so I was planning on just taking the general one.

These are the few schools that I am looking at:

Univ of Denver
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Georgia
Univ of Alabama Birmingham
Univ of Massachusetts
Northwestern
Rutgers
UC SAN DIEGO
UCLA

Does anyone know if I would be a competitive applicant? Also are there any less competitive clinical psych programs that I should apply to? I have to apply to a variety of them! Please let me know I need someone’s help!! I’m really scared of the GRE bc I hate standardized tests but I’ll see how it goes this summer! Any thoughts???

Mod Note: Merged into the WAMC thread

 

[aspiring-psychologist]

I am looking for advice on how to improve my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program in psychology and wondering what my current chances are. I'm primarily interested in going into research. I am a 4th year undergraduate student at a top 15 university but I made the decision to go psychology very late into my degree so I will probably have an additional year of school. I originally pursued biochemistry and then briefly switched into cognitive science before deciding on psychology. I struggled with the biochemistry degree and I was dealing with untreated bipolar disorder and psychosis so it's pulled down my overall GPA to 3.111 due to failed math and chemistry courses at that time but my psychology major GPA is still 3.890. I have 3 years of research experience and presented at 4 symposiums but my research projects were in the natural sciences (neuroscience and developmental biology specifically).

Have I done too much damage to my GPA to pursue a Ph.D? I would love to go to graduate school somewhere in California. What would you recommend I do to improve my application?

I am interested in experimental psychology and neuropsychology.

 

[psych.meout]

I am looking for advice on how to improve my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program in psychology and wondering what my current chances are. I'm primarily interested in going into research. I am a 4th year undergraduate student at a top 15 university but I made the decision to go psychology very late into my degree so I will probably have an additional year of school. I originally pursued biochemistry and then briefly switched into cognitive science before deciding on psychology. I struggled with the biochemistry degree and I was dealing with untreated bipolar disorder and psychosis so it's pulled down my overall GPA to 3.111 due to failed math and chemistry courses at that time but my psychology major GPA is still 3.890. I have 3 years of research experience and presented at 4 symposiums but my research projects were in the natural sciences (neuroscience and developmental biology specifically).

Have I done too much damage to my GPA to pursue a Ph.D? I would love to go to graduate school somewhere in California. What would you recommend I do to improve my application?

I am interested in experimental psychology and neuropsychology.

Are you interested in clinical psychology or another subdiscipline?

With a 3.111 GPA, you'll probably need to complete a relevant master's program to be competitive unless you get stellar GRE scores.

I would love to go to graduate school somewhere in California.

So would everyone else. California is a very competitive region and even candidates with amazing credentials can really hurt their chances of admission by geographically limiting their applications.

 

[aspiring-psychologist]

Are you interested in clinical psychology or another subdiscipline?

With a 3.111 GPA, you'll probably need to complete a relevant master's program to be competitive unless you get stellar GRE scores.

So would everyone else. California is a very competitive region and even candidates with amazing credentials can really hurt their chances of admission by geographically limiting their applications.

I see. I've made all As and A+s in my psychology courses. I'm interested in cognitive psychology, health psychology, or cognitive neuroscience and I'm interested in either a master or Ph.D. program. My end goal would be to work in research.

And no, I didn't say I was applying only to schools in California. I meant that would be my first choice state since I am moving to California next year but of course I'm open to other places as well.

 

[psych.meout]

I see. I've made all As and A+s in my psychology courses. I'm interested in cognitive psychology, health psychology, or cognitive neuroscience and I'm interested in either a master or Ph.D. program. My end goal would be to work in research.

These are related, but significantly different career paths. You need to narrow down your interests.

And no, I didn't say I was applying only to schools in California. I meant that would be my first choice state since I am moving to California next year but of course I'm open to other places as well.

Didn't say you did, I was just cautioning against making a common mistake.

 

[tiy123]

I am looking for advice on how to improve my chances of getting into a Ph.D. program in psychology and wondering what my current chances are. I'm primarily interested in going into research. I am a 4th year undergraduate student at a top 15 university but I made the decision to go psychology very late into my degree so I will probably have an additional year of school. I originally pursued biochemistry and then briefly switched into cognitive science before deciding on psychology. I struggled with the biochemistry degree and I was dealing with untreated bipolar disorder and psychosis so it's pulled down my overall GPA to 3.111 due to failed math and chemistry courses at that time but my psychology major GPA is still 3.890. I have 3 years of research experience and presented at 4 symposiums but my research projects were in the natural sciences (neuroscience and developmental biology specifically).

Have I done too much damage to my GPA to pursue a Ph.D? I would love to go to graduate school somewhere in California. What would you recommend I do to improve my application?

I am interested in experimental psychology and neuropsychology.

I disagree with you needing a masters. You're still in school, right? Get all A's and try to get above a 3.4, if possible. I would recommending taking a couple of extra (easy) undergrad classes to get your gpa before considering shelling out the money for a masters. That said, your gpa will still be on the low side for PhD programs, so you'll need to make up for it by crushing the gre and lots of research experience. Definitely consider a post-bacc to beef up your CV, especially if you want to apply to clinical science programs.

 

[ButterBrain]

Hello generous people! Thanks in advance for any feedback you provide to me. My scenario:

I am 29 years old and have a BFA in Electronic Media. Undergraduate GPA 3.3, major GPA 3.5, one year of introductory psych with a B average. Recently took the GRE with a 166 Verbal, 150 Quant, and 4.5 writing score. I spent summers in college as a full time youth camp counselor, and have other tutoring/volunteer experience, but no formal clinical or research experience. My professional experience is largely art and media, I currently manage a boutique art history and appraisal business and freelance as a video producer. My portfolio includes some award winning short films, documentaries, and music videos, which do show a solid range of life experience, writing skill, and creative ability. I've had some big name corporate clients and had my creative work published in various places.

This cycle I applied to two reputable Master's counseling programs and was accepted to both for this fall. But I am especially drawn towards the existential-phenomenological and philosophical side of things, and have taken a great interest in Duquesne's PHD program for its unique focus in these areas. I'm especially interested in areas where psychology and media overlap in our tech-saturated world (how media can better communicate/educate regarding mental health, how we experience media saturation, media ethics, etc.)

My main question is: Would I have any chance as a candidate there with my profile? I know my lack of formal psych experience and low quant score would get me immediately disqualified at most PHD programs.

I may accept into a counseling program and apply to Duquesne this fall just to see how it goes. My overall goals require being able to professionally counsel, but am interested at diving into the research/academia side if the fit is right. Duquesne would provide both sides, but if I couldn't get in would probably finish my MA in counseling and could consider non-practice related PHDs down the road (mostly interested in interdisciplinary philosophy type stuff).

Again, thanks for your thoughts!

 

[deleted343839]

This cycle I applied to two reputable Master's counseling programs and was accepted to both for this fall. But I am especially drawn towards the existential-phenomenological and philosophical side of things, and have taken a great interest in Duquesne's PHD program for its unique focus in these areas. I'm especially interested in areas where psychology and media overlap in our tech-saturated world (how media can better communicate/educate regarding mental health, how we experience media saturation, media ethics, etc.)

My main question is: Would I have any chance as a candidate there with my profile? I know my lack of formal psych experience and low quant score would get me immediately disqualified at most PHD programs.

I may accept into a counseling program and apply to Duquesne this fall just to see how it goes. My overall goals require being able to professionally counsel, but am interested at diving into the research/academia side if the fit is right. Duquesne would provide both sides, but if I couldn't get in would probably finish my MA in counseling and could consider non-practice related PHDs down the road (mostly interested in interdisciplinary philosophy type stuff).

I would not consider you to be competitive for doctoral training programs given your limited research experience and low exposure to psychology in general. Attending a counseling program won't make up for your lack of research experience. If doctoral training is your goal then you might consider an experimental (research-oriented) psychology master's program.

How committed are you to clinical training? Some of your interests could fit within other areas (eg, cognitive or social psychology). Counseling programs tend to be practical and applied in their focus and may not meet your needs for academic/philosophical exploration.

 

[ButterBrain]

How committed are you to clinical training? Some of your interests could fit within other areas (eg, cognitive or social psychology). Counseling programs tend to be practical and applied in their focus and may not meet your needs for academic/philosophical exploration.

I currently really want both the clinical and academic/philosophical training, but if I had to choose one I would take the clinical training, figuring it'd be better to be practicing as a licensed counselor and unlicensed philosopher than the reverse. The Counselor Ed Phd route is there, too, but the curriculums don't seem as focused on the science philosophy stuff. Duquesne seems to be a rare fit that would provide both a path to licensing and strong humanistic/qualitative/philosophical research that I dig. They seem to be more open to students with film/art/anthropology type backgrounds than your typical psych Phd, but I do still assume my lack of formal psych experience would require one hell of an application essay to even have a shot.

Your suggestion to look at experimental psych MA's has crossed my mind, but feels like the riskiest route. At almost 30 now I'd hate to get stuck with an MA that does't directly provide employment opportunities, especially if I still can't get into a fitting or funded doctoral program after it.

One of the master's counseling programs that offered me does have a thesis option, so perhaps it could provide me the clinical education while giving me some more opportunity to build my academic research portfolio? Lot to chew on. Thanks so much for thoughts thus far!

 

[psych.meout]

I currently really want both the clinical and academic/philosophical training, but if I had to choose one I would take the clinical training, figuring it'd be better to be practicing as a licensed counselor and unlicensed philosopher than the reverse.

You're joking, right?

 

[ButterBrain]

You're joking, right?

Was just pointing out that a licensed counselor can still research/write/philosophize professionally without a PhD, it would just be outside of academia.

On the flip side, a PhD social psychologist/theorist can't have a counseling practice, but they could still "coach" or "consult", just like anyone else.

Right? Hence where Clinical Psych PhDs certainly seem to have the most flexibility.

 

[psych.meout]

Was just pointing out that a licensed counselor can still research/write/philosophize professionally without a PhD, it would just be outside of academia.

I think you're getting a bit hung up on the philosophy part of all this. Sure, logical positivism and other philosophical strains have influenced psychology, but it's currently a science, so that's where most of the focus is. You might talk about philosophy over some beers with your colleagues, but it's not really a part of daily practice. Maybe if you drink the third-wave Kool-Aide there's more philosophical elements, but even then, it's more about the applications as science than traditional philosophy.

If you're going to be a master's-level counselor, it's going to be about therapy and that's pretty much it. Most counseling programs are very pragmatic and focused on training to do clinical work, not research. Even if you did get that training, you're not very likely to get any funding to do research in private practice, since you are not affiliated with any institution, e.g., a university or teaching hospital.

On the flip side, a PhD social psychologist/theorist can't have a counseling practice, but they could still "coach" or "consult", just like anyone else.

Right? Hence where Clinical Psych PhDs certainly seem to have the most flexibility.

Consulting is fine, but "life coaching" and other end-runs around professional psychology practice are dicey at best.

 

[wtfook]

Hello generous people! Thanks in advance for any feedback you provide to me. My scenario:

I am 29 years old and have a BFA in Electronic Media. Undergraduate GPA 3.3, major GPA 3.5, one year of introductory psych with a B average. Recently took the GRE with a 166 Verbal, 150 Quant, and 4.5 writing score. I spent summers in college as a full time youth camp counselor, and have other tutoring/volunteer experience, but no formal clinical or research experience. My professional experience is largely art and media, I currently manage a boutique art history and appraisal business and freelance as a video producer. My portfolio includes some award winning short films, documentaries, and music videos, which do show a solid range of life experience, writing skill, and creative ability. I've had some big name corporate clients and had my creative work published in various places.

This cycle I applied to two reputable Master's counseling programs and was accepted to both for this fall. But I am especially drawn towards the existential-phenomenological and philosophical side of things, and have taken a great interest in Duquesne's PHD program for its unique focus in these areas. I'm especially interested in areas where psychology and media overlap in our tech-saturated world (how media can better communicate/educate regarding mental health, how we experience media saturation, media ethics, etc.)

My main question is: Would I have any chance as a candidate there with my profile? I know my lack of formal psych experience and low quant score would get me immediately disqualified at most PHD programs.

I may accept into a counseling program and apply to Duquesne this fall just to see how it goes. My overall goals require being able to professionally counsel, but am interested at diving into the research/academia side if the fit is right. Duquesne would provide both sides, but if I couldn't get in would probably finish my MA in counseling and could consider non-practice related PHDs down the road (mostly interested in interdisciplinary philosophy type stuff).

Again, thanks for your thoughts!

I can understand the desire to get a terminal master's degree with which you can at least work as a clinician if the PhD route doesn't pan out. I would consider where the master's degrees are housed that you were accepted. I chose to get a master's in counseling before going into a PhD program because I had the same thought process, that if I didn't get into a PhD Program I could still get my LPC licensure and practice as a therapist. I specifically chose to do my counseling master's at a research institution and did research with a professor at the university. I was able to present, go to conferences, and work on a manuscript in that lab. I would guess that it was the research experience primarily and NOT the counseling master's degree that ultimately got me accepted into a PhD program. Given your credentials, you will need to do some kind of additional coursework to prove that you can excel in psychology courses. A counseling master's degree is fine so long as you are somewhere where you can do research, get published, and present. Several people in my master's program were admitted into funded PhD programs after the 1st and 2nd year of the program so it's totally doable. And if it doesn't work out, you can still practice as a master's level clinical. But be aware, the emphasis is on the research experience. Ideally, you'd be able to work with a faculty member who is doing research at least tangentially related to what you'd want to do in your PhD program. I don't know where you were accepted but Boston College's Counseling master's program has someone who does research on social media and mental health.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

Hello!

I am currently in my junior year as a psych undergrad. I am hoping to go straight into a COUNSELING PSYCH PhD program.

My cumulative gpa is 3.55
Psych GPA is 3.70

By the time I apply (will be start applying starting THIS fall - Fall 2018), I will have
- 1.5 years of research experience in a cognition lab
- 1 year in a family relations lab
- 2 poster presentations (one at a regional conference and one at my school's undergraduate research day)

I am applying for a summer grant for undergrads at my school and I am now about to start studying for the GRE and I am planning on taking it by end of May, so I can retake it in the summer if needed.

As of now, I am planing on applying for a terminal masters program in clinical mental health and find a RA position at a lab or volunteer to keep getting research experience.
I thought about going for an experimental MA program but the thought of not getting into any PhD programs after I finish my MA with no license scares me

What are my chances of getting into a COUNSELING psych PhD program right out of undergrad with my current stats?? If I do well on my GRE, would that offset my low cumulative gpa????

 

[YoungFrancis]

Hello!

I am currently in my junior year as a psych undergrad. I am hoping to go straight into a COUNSELING PSYCH PhD program.

My cumulative gpa is 3.57
Psych GPA is 3.80

By the time I apply (will be start applying starting THIS fall - Fall 2018), I will have
- 1.5 years of research experience in a cognition lab
- 1 year in a family relations lab
- 2 poster presentations (one at a regional conference and one at my school's undergraduate research day)

I am applying for a summer grant for undergrads at my school and I am now about to start studying for the GRE and I am planning on taking it by end of May, so I can retake it in the summer if needed.

As of now, I am planing on applying for a terminal masters program in clinical mental health and find a RA position at a lab or volunteer to keep getting research experience.
I thought about going for an experimental MA program but the thought of not getting into any PhD programs after I finish my MA with no license scares me

What are my chances of getting into a COUNSELING psych PhD program right out of undergrad with my current stats?? If I do well on my GRE, would that offset my low cumulative gpa????

Your GPA is not prohibitive. If you can bump it to a 3.6, you are certainly in a comfortable range at plenty of schools. Hitting 160s on the GRE's will be helpful as well. Does the current research you're involved with align with your career goals? If it does, I would focus on expanding your role as much as you can (publications, etc).

Hard to say what your chances are. Depends heavily on your fit with a faculty member as well as which schools you're applying to. Do you have people that can write stellar letters of rec. for you?

You certainly have time to improve your application. I would prioritize your grades this semester (and in the summer) since this is your last opportunity to improve your overall GPA before apps are due in the fall.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

Your GPA is not prohibitive. If you can bump it to a 3.6, you are certainly in a comfortable range at plenty of schools. Hitting 160s on the GRE's will be helpful as well. Does the current research you're involved with align with your career goals? If it does, I would focus on expanding your role as much as you can (publications, etc).

Hard to say what your chances are. Depends heavily on your fit with a faculty member as well as which schools you're applying to. Do you have people that can write stellar letters of rec. for you?

You certainly have time to improve your application. I would prioritize your grades this semester (and in the summer) since this is your last opportunity to improve your overall GPA before apps are due in the fall.

Thank you for your response! One of the lab loosely relates to my career goals. One of the lab studies parent-child relationships focusing on structure parenting in terms of boundaries while my research interest is in parent-child relationships with a focus on stereotype stressors and intervention in family units for minorities. Would it be a hindrance if my research interest and my previous experience as an undergraduate researcher does not line up??

I do have couple professors and PIs in mind that agreed to write me a letter of rec, so I'm pretty confident that those will be solid.

UNT
Iowa State
Northern Colorado
Georgia state
U of Kansas
Howard University

These are some of the programs I've looked into. I'm not geographically limited at all so I'm open to any suggestions as well!

Do you have any suggestions on how to study for the GRE?? I was never good with standardized testing so I'm really worried..

 

[wtfook]

Thank you for your response! One of the lab loosely relates to my career goals. One of the lab studies parent-child relationships focusing on structure parenting in terms of boundaries while my research interest is in parent-child relationships with a focus on stereotype stressors and intervention in family units for minorities. Would it be a hindrance if my research interest and my previous experience as an undergraduate researcher does not line up??

I do have couple professors and PIs in mind that agreed to write me a letter of rec, so I'm pretty confident that those will be solid.

UNT
Iowa State
Northern Colorado
Georgia state
U of Kansas
Howard University

These are some of the programs I've looked into. I'm not geographically limited at all so I'm open to any suggestions as well!

Do you have any suggestions on how to study for the GRE?? I was never good with standardized testing so I'm really worried..

This is a pretty short list, although the geographic range is pretty broad. There are definitely other researchers doing parent child relationships in other counseling programs too. Is your list exhaustive in that you looked everywhere and these are only the few that you looked into? Or is there room for further research? Lehigh University, for example, has a counseling doctoral program. One of their faculty there (Susan Woodhouse) does attachment research but with infants.

As for your stats, I would say it's not terrible. So long as you got at least 50% per section and ideally over 320, you'd have a shot. In order to beef up your chances outside of GRE scores, it'd probably be better to just do research in a lab as an RA, get some publications and presentations, and go from there. Your GPA really isn't so low that you'd get screened out, especially your psych GPA.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

This is a pretty short list, although the geographic range is pretty broad. There are definitely other researchers doing parent child relationships in other counseling programs too. Is your list exhaustive in that you looked everywhere and these are only the few that you looked into? Or is there room for further research? Lehigh University, for example, has a counseling doctoral program. One of their faculty there (Susan Woodhouse) does attachment research but with infants.

As for your stats, I would say it's not terrible. So long as you got at least 50% per section and ideally over 320, you'd have a shot. In order to beef up your chances outside of GRE scores, it'd probably be better to just do research in a lab as an RA, get some publications and presentations, and go from there. Your GPA really isn't so low that you'd get screened out, especially your psych GPA.

The list I have up there are only the few that I looked into! I've been going down one by one through the accredited programs list on APA's website and since there are a ton of programs, I was not able to look through every single one of them just yet.

Do you have a suggestion on how many programs I should be applying to??

 

[wtfook]

The list I have up there are only the few that I looked into! I've been going down one by one through the accredited programs list on APA's website and since there are a ton of programs, I was not able to look through every single one of them just yet.

Do you have a suggestion on how many programs I should be applying to??

Personally I applied to 11 my first time and 10 my second. And yup! Don't be discouraged if you have to apply more than once! Many people I speak to who are in PhD programs had to. It's totally not a knock on you but just that maybe you needed more experience before trying again. Which is why I say go an RA position because your GPA isn't low enough where a master's would be necessary to prove you can do well in psych classes and it can be pretty expensive. The benefit of a master's in a research institution however, is that you'll get to work with a professor more easily, get in their lab, and theoretically publish. Many counseling/clinical psych master's programs are in such schools and share a PhD program within the same department. I'm only familiar with the east coast but on the east coast there's Lehigh, NYU, Boston College, and Columbia Teachers College. Sometimes students who work with their advisor get admitted from master's to PhD. Also, all the places I listed have a counseling psych PhD Program.

As an addition to how many to apply to, I know some people even applied to 17 or 18. That, to me, is pretty intense. I would so apply to at least 10 and do more if you think you can make your personal statement customized enough that it would be apparent you applied to a million programs.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

Personally I applied to 11 my first time and 10 my second. And yup! Don't be discouraged if you have to apply more than once! Many people I speak to who are in PhD programs had to. It's totally not a knock on you but just that maybe you needed more experience before trying again. Which is why I say go an RA position because your GPA isn't low enough where a master's would be necessary to prove you can do well in psych classes and it can be pretty expensive. The benefit of a master's in a research institution however, is that you'll get to work with a professor more easily, get in their lab, and theoretically publish. Many counseling/clinical psych master's programs are in such schools and share a PhD program within the same department. I'm only familiar with the east coast but on the east coast there's Lehigh, NYU, Boston College, and Columbia Teachers College. Sometimes students who work with their advisor get admitted from master's to PhD. Also, all the places I listed have a counseling psych PhD Program.

As an addition to how many to apply to, I know some people even applied to 17 or 18. That, to me, is pretty intense. I would so apply to at least 10 and do more if you think you can make your personal statement customized enough that it would be apparent you applied to a million programs.

I'll definitely look into some RA positions!

But also, do you think the nature of counseling psych programs may prefer applicants with clinical experience..? I know this is going to vary a ton from each programs, but the few people I spoke with, 3 out of 5 had had their masters in MEd or MA in counseling and some even practiced for couple years before they went back for their PhD. Of course, I understand research is important but it's hard to find a Masters level counseling program that comes along with research opportunities since they are terminal degrees.

 

[wtfook]

I'll definitely look into some RA positions!

But also, do you think the nature of counseling psych programs may prefer applicants with clinical experience..? I know this is going to vary a ton from each programs, but the few people I spoke with, 3 out of 5 had had their masters in MEd or MA in counseling and some even practiced for couple years before they went back for their PhD. Of course, I understand research is important but it's hard to find a Masters level counseling program that comes along with research opportunities since they are terminal degrees.

Yeah you did hit on a salient difference between counseling and clinical psych programs. I would say based on my observations as well, counseling psych programs have a more favorable outlook on people with master's degrees. Clinical programs tend to recruit much more heavily from people who did ONLY an RA or are coming straight from their bachelor's. Average age of individuals in counseling programs may be older as well because they may have a master's and have worked a couple of years before applying for their doctorate.

WITH THAT SAID, in group variation is always higher than out group variation. NYU, for example, has a statement on their website that they prefer people with master's degrees to apply to their counseling PhD program. However, when I interviewed there a couple years back I met doctoral students who were straight out of college or did not have a master's and did research for a couple of years. I'm in a counseling psych program and 3/6 in our cohort don't have a master's. One is straight out of college and 2 took 1-2 years off to research and get clinical experience. So honestly, do what is right for you. So long as you have relevant research experience with the advisor you hope to work with, some publications or presentations, and maybe some clinical experience, you'll look like a strong candidate.

As for a master's level counseling program that comes with research opportunities, all of the institutions I listed in my previous comment will offer that. Lehigh, NYU, Boston College, and Columbia Teachers College all have counseling master's programs WITH counseling psych PhD programs in the same department. Many students who go there do research with faculty in the department and some even end up matriculating into the doctoral program. I'm sure there are others that exist outside of the east coast, but since I live around here I'm only familiar with these places.

I personally got my master's in counseling from UPenn and did research with a faculty member in my department. Penn doesn't have a counseling psych PhD but since it's a research institution, all tenure track faculty do research and it's pretty easy to get into a lab.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

Yeah you did hit on a salient difference between counseling and clinical psych programs. I would say based on my observations as well, counseling psych programs have a more favorable outlook on people with master's degrees. Clinical programs tend to recruit much more heavily from people who did ONLY an RA or are coming straight from their bachelor's. Average age of individuals in counseling programs may be older as well because they may have a master's and have worked a couple of years before applying for their doctorate.

WITH THAT SAID, in group variation is always higher than out group variation. NYU, for example, has a statement on their website that they prefer people with master's degrees to apply to their counseling PhD program. However, when I interviewed there a couple years back I met doctoral students who were straight out of college or did not have a master's and did research for a couple of years. I'm in a counseling psych program and 3/6 in our cohort don't have a master's. One is straight out of college and 2 took 1-2 years off to research and get clinical experience. So honestly, do what is right for you. So long as you have relevant research experience with the advisor you hope to work with, some publications or presentations, and maybe some clinical experience, you'll look like a strong candidate.

As for a master's level counseling program that comes with research opportunities, all of the institutions I listed in my previous comment will offer that. Lehigh, NYU, Boston College, and Columbia Teachers College all have counseling master's programs WITH counseling psych PhD programs in the same department. Many students who go there do research with faculty in the department and some even end up matriculating into the doctoral program. I'm sure there are others that exist outside of the east coast, but since I live around here I'm only familiar with these places.

I personally got my master's in counseling from UPenn and did research with a faculty member in my department. Penn doesn't have a counseling psych PhD but since it's a research institution, all tenure track faculty do research and it's pretty easy to get into a lab.

Do you mind if I ask if you were fully licensed as an LPC or fulfilled any clinical hours for licensure after you got your Masters?

Also, one of the lab I'm actually in - it sits in the same department as the Masters and PhD Counseling Psych program. The PI I'm working with right now is a tenured track faculty and her PhD in family studies. Would you say it would be a solid plan for me to apply for the Masters in Counseling program at the current institution I'm in (my undergraduate institution) and to continue doing research with the current PI I'm working with with a goal of getting pubs/presentations? (I'm thinking it'll be easier to build up my relationship with this lab so I can have a better chance of having pubs and presentations with this lab)

Or should I apply for a Masters program (along with PhD) in different universities and see if I can get into a lab as a masters student that aligns a lot more closely with my interest?

I'm just worried that it won't be enough time for me to build relationships and do research to publish and etc if I were to go to a different institution since Masters programs are only 2 years..

Thank you so much for all your help!!

 

[wtfook]

Do you mind if I ask if you were fully licensed as an LPC or fulfilled any clinical hours for licensure after you got your Masters?

Also, one of the lab I'm actually in - it sits in the same department as the Masters and PhD Counseling Psych program. The PI I'm working with right now is a tenured track faculty and her PhD in family studies. Would you say it would be a solid plan for me to apply for the Masters in Counseling program at the current institution I'm in (my undergraduate institution) and to continue doing research with the current PI I'm working with with a goal of getting pubs/presentations? (I'm thinking it'll be easier to build up my relationship with this lab so I can have a better chance of having pubs and presentations with this lab)

Or should I apply for a Masters program (along with PhD) in different universities and see if I can get into a lab as a masters student that aligns a lot more closely with my interest?

I'm just worried that it won't be enough time for me to build relationships and do research to publish and etc if I were to go to a different institution since Masters programs are only 2 years..

Thank you so much for all your help!!

I got into a PhD program a year after I graduated from my master's program. I applied the year before but didn't get in. For that in between year, I practiced as a fee-for-service therapist and got LPC supervision toward clinical hours with an onsite LPC supervisor.

I would say it depends on what you're interested in researching. Then look at other master's programs and see if they have faculty you could work with who are doing THAT research. You could even send inquiries before you apply to see if that's a possibility before deciding to apply. However, if you are interested in parental relationships and the person you're with is doing just that, but in a slightly different area, I may not worry about it as much. There's a lot to be said of established relationships. It means they will trust you more to do more hands-on, publication heavy work and will write you a better recommendation letter. In other labs, you may have to start from the ground up and that could mean 1-2 more years of grunt work before you can build up to presenting and publishing with them.

For example, perhaps you want to work with parent child relationships involving adolescents but your lab is with small children. That's pretty minute and you can definitely swing it in an application. But if the you want to work on family therapy techniques with a focus on addiction in the family system, perhaps you'd want to move to a different lab either that researches addictions or family therapy.

These are also questions you could be asking the faculty member you are working with.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

I got into a PhD program a year after I graduated from my master's program. I applied the year before but didn't get in. For that in between year, I practiced as a fee-for-service therapist and got LPC supervision toward clinical hours with an onsite LPC supervisor.

I would say it depends on what you're interested in researching. Then look at other master's programs and see if they have faculty you could work with who are doing THAT research. You could even send inquiries before you apply to see if that's a possibility before deciding to apply. However, if you are interested in parental relationships and the person you're with is doing just that, but in a slightly different area, I may not worry about it as much. There's a lot to be said of established relationships. It means they will trust you more to do more hands-on, publication heavy work and will write you a better recommendation letter. In other labs, you may have to start from the ground up and that could mean 1-2 more years of grunt work before you can build up to presenting and publishing with them.

For example, perhaps you want to work with parent child relationships involving adolescents but your lab is with small children. That's pretty minute and you can definitely swing it in an application. But if the you want to work on family therapy techniques with a focus on addiction in the family system, perhaps you'd want to move to a different lab either that researches addictions or family therapy.

These are also questions you could be asking the faculty member you are working with.

Ah got it. I'll keep those in mind!

Was there a reason why you didn't apply straight to a PhD program as an undergrad?

 

[wtfook]

Ah got it. I'll keep those in mind!

Was there a reason why you didn't apply straight to a PhD program as an undergrad?

I originally planned to go to medical school so was working on that out of undergrad but that didn't work out. I was working as a lab technician and honestly was having a lot of fun traveling, doing things with my friends, and being a single adult with a steady paycheck. By the time I decided to go back school, I had been out too long to be competitive for doctoral programs so I decided to get a terminal counseling master's. I figured just in case the PhD thing didn't work out, I'd still have a degree with which I can practice and have a career in mental health.

Honestly dude, really think about taking a break from school for a couple years to just grow and mature. I'm 29 and in my first year as a doctoral student and am pretty glad I waited. While I wish I hadn't waited as long as I did (maybe 25-26 would've been better), I just feel so much more prepared and ready as a human being for a PhD program. I don't suffer from academic fatigue the way people straight out of undergrad feel. Instead I am excited to learn, am more mature, am WAY more organized with my time and school work, and have so much more focus and understanding about what I want to research, study, and do for my career. I would never trade the growing (AND FUN) I did in my early 20s for saving time by going straight from undergrad.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Thank you for your response! One of the lab loosely relates to my career goals. One of the lab studies parent-child relationships focusing on structure parenting in terms of boundaries while my research interest is in parent-child relationships with a focus on stereotype stressors and intervention in family units for minorities. Would it be a hindrance if my research interest and my previous experience as an undergraduate researcher does not line up??

I do have couple professors and PIs in mind that agreed to write me a letter of rec, so I'm pretty confident that those will be solid.

UNT
Iowa State
Northern Colorado
Georgia state
U of Kansas
Howard University

These are some of the programs I've looked into. I'm not geographically limited at all so I'm open to any suggestions as well!

Do you have any suggestions on how to study for the GRE?? I was never good with standardized testing so I'm really worried..

I can't speak for all of those programs but you would be competitive at some of those listed based on who I have seen come through and interview/marticulate in my affiliation with them or based on my conversation with faculty when I interviewed there for a faculty position. I suspect your success will be tied more to fit with the professor given your research experience at this point- I would consider you to have a fairly strong research background. For one school you named that I know very well, for instance, I am not sure where that interest is related closely to any of the faculty there and that may play a larger role with fit.

I'll definitely look into some RA positions!

But also, do you think the nature of counseling psych programs may prefer applicants with clinical experience..? I know this is going to vary a ton from each programs, but the few people I spoke with, 3 out of 5 had had their masters in MEd or MA in counseling and some even practiced for couple years before they went back for their PhD. Of course, I understand research is important but it's hard to find a Masters level counseling program that comes along with research opportunities since they are terminal degrees.

It's not that counseling prefers clinical experience in an applicant. Instead, counseling tends to be more open with respect to how folks come to apply to the programs, and many times that may include other backgrounds. Research is still going to be weighted the most heavily and be the most preferred relative to clinical experience (given its scope) is not. I would continue to weight research experience more strongly than clinical opportunities as you evaluate your options, regardless of if you want a clinical of counseling phd.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

I originally planned to go to medical school so was working on that out of undergrad but that didn't work out. I was working as a lab technician and honestly was having a lot of fun traveling, doing things with my friends, and being a single adult with a steady paycheck. By the time I decided to go back school, I had been out too long to be competitive for doctoral programs so I decided to get a terminal counseling master's. I figured just in case the PhD thing didn't work out, I'd still have a degree with which I can practice and have a career in mental health.

Honestly dude, really think about taking a break from school for a couple years to just grow and mature. I'm 29 and in my first year as a doctoral student and am pretty glad I waited. While I wish I hadn't waited as long as I did (maybe 25-26 would've been better), I just feel so much more prepared and ready as a human being for a PhD program. I don't suffer from academic fatigue the way people straight out of undergrad feel. Instead I am excited to learn, am more mature, am WAY more organized with my time and school work, and have so much more focus and understanding about what I want to research, study, and do for my career. I would never trade the growing (AND FUN) I did in my early 20s for saving time by going straight from undergrad.

Haha I'll definitely keep that in mind!! Thank you for all your help!

 

[PlatoPsychology]

I can't speak for all of those programs but you would be competitive at some of those listed based on who I have seen come through and interview/marticulate in my affiliation with them or based on my conversation with faculty when I interviewed there for a faculty position. I suspect your success will be tied more to fit with the professor given your research experience at this point- I would consider you to have a fairly strong research background. For one school you named that I know very well, for instance, I am not sure where that interest is related closely to any of the faculty there and that may play a larger role with fit.


It's not that counseling prefers clinical experience in an applicant. Instead, counseling tends to be more open with respect to how folks come to apply to the programs, and many times that may include other backgrounds. Research is still going to be weighted the most heavily and be the most preferred relative to clinical experience (given its scope) is not. I would continue to weight research experience more strongly than clinical opportunities as you evaluate your options, regardless of if you want a clinical of counseling phd.

Would you say getting higher percentile GRE scores would also be another deal breaker in terms of my competitiveness?
Also, would it be unethical(?)/unprofessional if I PM you to ask which one of the school I mentioned above doesn't lie closely with my interest?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Honestly dude, really think about taking a break from school for a couple years to just grow and mature. I'm 29 and in my first year as a doctoral student and am pretty glad I waited.

I took a detour after graduating and came back to psych after spending time in a different career. It really helped me get sorted and grow a lot. I found grad school much more manageable bc I had lived some life and more importantly learned how to navigate politics and personalities in “the real world”. I try to not bag on college/university life, but it is definitely in a bubble. Getting some life experience is often under-rated by the applicants.

 

[wtfook]

Haha I'll definitely keep that in mind!! Thank you for all your help!

Yup no problem! Good luck!

 

[wtfook]

I took a detour after graduating and came back to psych after spending time in a different career. It really helped me get sorted and grow a lot. I found grad school much more manageable bc I had lived some life and more importantly learned how to navigate politics and personalities in “the real world”. I try to not bag on college/university life, but it is definitely in a bubble. Getting some life experience is often under-rated.

Seriously. When I was finishing college I was in such a hurry to finish schooling. I felt like 30 was so far away and so old and I needed to get things done. Now that I'm actually pushing 30, I realize there's a lot of time and it's good to spend those younger years figuring out who the heck you are first.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Would you say getting higher percentile GRE scores would also be another deal breaker in terms of my competitiveness?
Also, would it be unethical(?)/unprofessional if I PM you to ask which one of the school I mentioned above doesn't lie closely with my interest?

Without knowing your GRE scores, it would not be possible for me to make any sort of estimate about the degree to which that would be a deal breaker for competitiveness. For instance, I suspect if you perform in the 1st percentile there may be some substantial difficulties finding admission while the 40-60th would likely not be as detrimental. I think you'll find yourself in a good position for programs if you average or above for psych PhD applicants given your previous experience.

Getting some life experience is often under-rated by the applicants.

^^ So much this. Life experience is so important and entails a certain maturity for the applicant. I really appreciate people who have been outside the bubble.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

I took a detour after graduating and came back to psych after spending time in a different career. It really helped me get sorted and grow a lot. I found grad school much more manageable bc I had lived some life and more importantly learned how to navigate politics and personalities in “the real world”. I try to not bag on college/university life, but it is definitely in a bubble. Getting some life experience is often under-rated by the applicants.

Oh wow. I was concerned with being out of the "loop" if I were to take a detour after undergrad if I wasn't constantly in a university research settings. I've been looking into different paid RA positions in my region but since I live closer to a big medical district, a lot of them are heavily science (bio, chem etc) based, which is not related to my interest and definitely not my area of expertise as a psych major

 

[deleted343839]

Oh wow. I was concerned with being out of the "loop" if I were to take a detour after undergrad if I wasn't constantly in a university research settings. I've been looking into different paid RA positions in my region but since I live closer to a big medical district, a lot of them are heavily science (bio, chem etc) based, which is not related to my interest and definitely not my area of expertise as a psych major

Medical centers can have some hidden gems, so don't give up looking there. Check out opportunities in departments like psychiatry, public health, epidemiology, health services research, etc. Investigators are often looking for bachelor-level RAs to conduct interviews, administer and score surveys, assist with writing tasks (IRB, grant progress reports, etc.), and so forth. Depending on the hospital or institution these can be excellent jobs with better pay and benefits than most positions available to new college grads.

 

[brainwrangler]

Applying to clinical PhD programs with a focus on neuropsychology.

Undergrad GPA: 3.9 overall from well-regarded SLAC, 4.0 in-major (excluding classes taken abroad)
Major: psychology, minoring in neuroscience
GRE: 6.0 writing, 170 verbal, 157 quant, 99th percentile psych GRE

Research experience:
2.5 years in psycholinguistics lab running participants, entering data, and generating stimuli
1 summer internship in a big-name behavioral pharmacology/psychiatry program, running subjects 40 hrs/week
7 months 20-30 hrs/week in cognitive psychology lab (while studying abroad)
At this point my original PI in the psycholinguistics lab went on sabbatical and I transferred to a neuropsychology lab and was placed on data analysis for an ongoing project. I wrote my honors thesis based on this work.
1 year (will be 1.5) of managing a cognitive psychology lab, including neuroimaging data analysis and programming experiments
Overall I will have 5.5 years of research when I apply.

I have one poster presentation at a professional conference, an authorship on 2 papers in the works (not yet submitted, at least one probably will not be by application day), and smaller (school-level) presentations and talks every year except freshman year. I also have my name on a lab poster I was unable to personally present (was studying abroad).

Awards and Honors:
Highest honors in psychology
Dean’s List 3/4 years (ineligible when abroad)
Various merit scholarships
Psi Chi, Nu Rho Psi, and Sigma Xi student memberships
A school-wide award for analytical writing (outside major, not sure whether to include this)

Other miscellany:
One semester TAing physiology and intro psychology. I was unable to TA for my first few years because that and the paid research position would’ve pushed me over the allotted # of paid hours.

Edit: my primary concern is that I didn’t do a whole lot of experimental design—in my first lab I wasn’t as ambitious as I could have been (chalk it up to naïveté), and as a lab manager I’ve been asking for more responsibility but have mostly been assigned to other people’s projects. (The studies I consider “mine” were designed by my PI and built/analyzed by me.) I’m also worried that my cognitive-heavy experience will count against me.

 

[PlatoPsychology]

Medical centers can have some hidden gems, so don't give up looking there. Check out opportunities in departments like psychiatry, public health, epidemiology, health services research, etc. Investigators are often looking for bachelor-level RAs to conduct interviews, administer and score surveys, assist with writing tasks (IRB, grant progress reports, etc.), and so forth. Depending on the hospital or institution these can be excellent jobs with better pay and benefits than most positions available to new college grads.

Do you think it'll matter a lot if it doesn't relate to my specific interest though?